TopGun saves self sooner than SanDiego

f18 pilotCOS- Having our own Air Force jets flying overhead constantly, I’m surprised more of Colorado Springs isn’t reacting to the F-18 crash in a San Diego residential area. The pilot ejected safely, but left his plane to plow into American homes.

Where did the skin-saving ingrate think he was? Iraq? Our schools have got to place more emphasis on Geography.

This pilot’s military mindset was clear: the plane may be expensive, but the most important piece of ordnance is himself. More specifically, his TRAINED self. The time and training invested in him. In San Diego, the Marines saved a pilot, the multi-million dollar plane was lost, and there was some collateral damage. But this time it was AMERICAN.

Is that just like a video game player, press SAVE GAME, without regard to averting catastrophe? Because you don’t get any credit for saving the health points of other players, especially not the lives of the non-players in the simulated background. Outside virtual reality, it’s the same thing: in American wars, usually those background lives are foreign anyway. Collateral.

Where are we supposed to train our Top Guns? They need open skies like those of Afghanistan, where they can experience the real combat environment, where they can bail out and abandon their flying bombs into people who don’t matter.

Or have University City non-combatant Americans living too close to the Marine Corps Air Station Miramar become that too?

In fact, the only one whose life seems to matter is fighter jet pilot. Investigators can find a fourth body in the home, can find three homes and four vehicles destroyed, and find the F/A-18D Hornet suffered a loss of power, but investigators can’t identify the perpetrator beyond that he’s a 20-something lieutenant with an Attack Squadron.

Going down with the ship means accepting responsibility. Do they do that anymore? Going down with a plane is even more vital. It means using your last breath to steer the dangerous projectile you’ve become away from others.

F-18 crashHave I read somewhere that the military has lowered its requirements for who can be a pilot? Before Top Gun, film audiences were led to believe to be an officer meant you also had to be a gentleman.

They had to condemn several homes just for the toxic residue. Support the Troops.

43 thoughts on “TopGun saves self sooner than SanDiego

  1. AvatarBarbara

    Thank you. I couldn’t believe that I was the only one that feels this way.

    A family’s been obliterated … the wife and the mother-in-law – their DNA ends here/now … a father has to live with the loss of his entire family — just because some hot-rodder fighter pilot flies a weapon of mass destruction over a family neighborhood.

    What ever happened to ditching into the ocean or crashing into a field or going down with the plane in order to do as little damage as possible??

    I am so sick of the damage that’s been done to the soul and psyche of this country (this world) by the unfettered impulse to be constantly building more and more and bigger and bigger weapons and pimping weapons all over the world and then having to go fight against the weapons that WE (the United States) spread around the world.

    I’m sick of Southern Mothers and Fathers saying that their dead child “gave their life so that *we* could live in freedom”. Bullshit.

    Your son or daughter laid his or her life down to protect the oil, to protect the great military-industrial complex. Your future ends here. Your DNA will not pass on. There will be no grandchildren, no great grandchildren because The Bush Family cannot keep their hands off of everyone else’s oil.

    The Father of those two babies that got incinerated by the crash of the F18 stood in front of the TV cameras and forgave the pilot for what he did. Forgave the man for destroying a neighborhood, for destroying untold numbers of lives. Called the pilot one of this country’s “treasurers”.

    That’s the problem. If we had less plane jockeys, like George Bush, like John McCain, like that pilot — less men who were willing to sacrifice everything so that they could FLY AIRPLANES and HAVE FUN while the rest of the world is crashing around our ankles…

    If we had less men and women who believed the lie that if you pick up a gun or drive a tank or incinerate another human being with nuclear bombs or bunker buster bombs or fly airplanes into buildings, you are [quote]doing something for your country [unquote]

    There might be a chance to have a decent civilization where we don’t have to watch little African babies die of cholera and other diseases because there’s no medical treatment for little African babies.

    There might be chance to find a cure for epilepsy so a beautiful little nine year old girl’s Mother doesn’t have to watch her child slip away a little more every time a seizure strikes.

    There might be a chance to stop all the pollution that’s being soaked into the very ground where we grow our fruits and vegetables.

    There might be a chance … if we parents stopped lying to our children and telling them they’re HEROES if they die for oil or die for someone else’s property or die for a government that doesn’t give a shit for any of us.

    Barb

  2. Avatarjonah

    Yeah. What Ike said about the cross of iron before he sold out to the same Military-Industrial complex he warned about.

    My Grandpa, Sergeant Lawrence Wesley Richard, “liked Ike” in 1952 but by ’56, when Ike started sending the first American ‘advisers’ into Viet-Nam, he backed and voted Non-Republican all the way.

  3. AvatarBarry M.

    Verlo, you are truly an idiot. I read the crash report, and have it if you would like to see it.

    The pilot ejected because he encountered critical failures of both engines. Before he bailed out, he pointed his jet at the small canyon next to the houses. However, after he left the jet, it turned and crashed into the houses below. It was an unfortunate accident, and shouldn’t be twisted into some diatribe against military pilots or US troops. The crash had nothing to do with his training, or contempt of life you say the pilots have. It was an accident. 1000’s of sorties are flown over US and international skies everyday without incident. Pilots are trained to try to get the jet out of civilian areas before considering ejecting. ( I know, I train Air Force Pilots in simulations) Sure, he could have stayed with the jet, and killed himself, and possibly people on the ground. But he lives to face the consequences of that horrible day. I am sure it will be with him the rest of his life as a lingering sadness and regret. He didn’t go back to his squadron and high five with his comrades about his body count that day, you dumb ass. He is grounded, and will likely never fly again, nor would probably want to. He is a talented, university educated man who decided to serve his country. Talk is cheap, asshole.

    It was an ACCIDENT. They happen. Bad shit happens no matter how much you plan against it. Like the accident of your birth.

    You last line is a good one.. Support the Troops. Try it sometime. Remember their sacrifices. They make sure that you can sit safely in Starbucks in Colorado and snipe at them, you douchebag.

  4. AvatarTony Logan

    Of course ‘ACCIDENTS’ happen with ‘guns’, Barry. People kill people though, and not just guns killing just all by themselves. When you have so many guns around and they are seen by so many as being just like big toys, then you get more ‘ACCIDENTS’ occurring.

    ‘The crash had nothing to do with his training, or contempt of life you say the pilots have. It was an accident.’

    This is BALONEY though. It had everything to do with his and your own training, Barry. It was no accident, your training and his, your priorities and his, and the government’s training and priorities did make this ‘ACCIDENT’ happen unlike what you say.

    Barry, you truly are ‘an idiot’ for you not to see that. You and your ‘ACCIDENTS’ happen all the time in other countries like Pakistan, now don’t they? And drones don’t even have flesh and blood pilots even! These ‘ACCIDENTS’ happen here, there, and everywhere. Barbara, (the first person who commentated) understood that, and Barry doesn’t.

  5. AvatarBain

    verlo- you don’t know what the hell you are talking about, neither does your pal tony- you blame our pilots for training to do a difficult job you can’t begin to understand because you never spent a day of your life defending this country- i would write more, but i know im wasting my time with you as your mind is already made up- your baseless, slanted article is proof of that, but im sure this site is a haven for whacked out pussies like yourself so it wont be challenged-take comfort in knowing you can have a chickenshit site like this thanks to the very pilots you disparage- you make me sick, go fuck yourself

  6. AvatarTony Logan

    You are right. It is a hard job to fly these Pentagon toys around countless hours and not kill somebody inside the US as well as outside of it, which is of course what much of this pilot training is supposed to be about. I mean the Armed Forces would never have people just flying about for the joy ride of it, would they, Bain?

  7. EricEric

    Dear Bain,
    I spend quite a bit of my life defending my country, thank you very much, from warmongering yahoos like you. And to be clear, this website does not owe ONE IOTA to self-infatuated aerial-marauders who kill poor innocents by the hundreds and thousands in the name of kicking-ass patriotism.

    What a country we could have if it weren’t for undereducated, thick-necked skinhead soldiers who strut like they have done anything heroic.

  8. AvatarJarod

    Wow! Your so brave to be sitting at your computer writing this article and talking about going down with the aircraft to prevent damage on the ground. The author knows nothing about aviation. This crash was caused by a mechanical failure in the aircraft, not pilot error…if his altitude had permitted him to steer the aircraft to a less dense area I gaurantee he would have! The pilot of this aircraft is obviously a good pilot or would would not be one, and a great american for serving his country! How dare you judge someone in doing a job that you have neither the balls or the skill to do…he was put in an unfortunate situation that all pilots are trained rigorously for but almost never have to face and he did what he was trained to do! Its so easy to judge from the outside looking in…Go to hell you piece of shit!

  9. EricEric

    Dude!
    You “guarantee he would have” steered for a less dense area? There was such an area nearby, as experts critical of this pilot pointed out. THE PACIFIC.

    “The pilot of this aircraft is obviously a good pilot or would would not be one.” Your being untroubled by your logic did not prevent you from spreading inanity via your keyboard.

    We think we can conduct warfare with safe precision, but of course there is mechanical failure, as you point out, and vainglorious reckless homicide, as I point out. The results of which are dismissed as “collateral damage” which your kind also drapes in an American flag. I don’t have the loss of innocent lives on my conscience. Who’s the piece of shit?

  10. AvatarTony Logan

    Isn’t that the way it always is, Eric? When you question the results of having all this military hardware all over our country… nuclear weapons, military nuclear reactors,, bombing practice sites, unsteady soldiers with guns everywhere half crazed, military aircraft flying in circles overhead almost always??? they come out and say their favorite line…

    ‘Go to Hell, you Piece of Shit’

    That’s because you’re messing with their jobs, their entire sense of worth, their deals done with the Devil, etc. And these folk are not too bright either! They have rather delicate psychs… lol.. these heroes….

    Thanks for writing, Jarod!

  11. Avatarjohn doe

    you know what? You need to grow a dick and some balls. This man has put his life on the line by joining our millitary, i don’t see you there do i? It’s really simple: his plane broke, he realized he had to make a choice: to try to steer plane in path of least destruction and eject or loose his life. I will bet you that if you were in that situation you’d probably eject too without a second thought. He knows what he did and he probably regrets it but if your such a Superman let’s see you do what you say you would in that situation and go kill yourself to apparently “save others’ lives”, and if you did we wouldn’t have to hear you anyway throwing off on the men that allow us to be free. If your going to keep throwing off on our service men and women then you need to move your to Iraq so we can kick your ass and prove to you just how powerful and mighty our millitary is and just what they do for you. You know what your probably some immigrant that hates us and just came here to live free.

  12. EricEric

    You think I need to grow some balls, Mr “John Doe”?!

    This self-important cowboy put everybody’s lives but his on the line, with the same temerity that you think our national might is measured by the asses we can kick.

    You patriot jerkoffs are protecting no one’s freedoms except the freedom of profiteers to plunder the world and blast every human being who’s in the way.

  13. AvatarThe 13th

    Hey, also in the news, our good ol’ govt recently and accidentally published “sensitive” info on nuclear sites here in the US of Apathy. Like this pilot’s claim, here’s the grand disclaimer from Energy Secretary Steven Chu…

    “Someone made a mistake,” said Chu, appearing before a House Appropriations subcommittee .

    Whee. Was it a mistakeor a cheap ploy at keeping terrorist fears alive and well. It works. I’m afraid no one is in charge of anything except PR and damage control.

    About a year ago our golden Armed Forces lost nuclear material, loaded “accidentally” on a plane without the knowledge of the plane or ground crew. The plane and its hidden cargo flew over the Home of the Brave for hours without any sign of (pardon the oxymoron) “military intelligence” knowing its whereabouts or even that the nuclear material was missing.

    Of course if that plane failed – you know the ol’ mechanical failure of equip maintained by the govt workers (“it was a mistake, I tell ya!”)- such an accident would have spread a glow of radioactive patriotism from sea to shining sea.

    This isn’t about growing balls. Grow a brain. Disarm the death machines and support Life.

  14. AvatarThe 13th

    Barry – if this was an accident – it was avoidable. Or did the your leaders just feed more idle PR to the Chicago Tribune.

    (from: http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/mar/04/nation/chi-marine-jet-crash_04mar04 )

    Read…

    “Military officials announced they had disciplined 13 Marines for a series of avoidable mechanical and human errors that led to the crash, which killed four members of the same family, including two children.

    “It was collectively bad decision-making,” said Col. John Rupp.”

    Ahhh… it was “collectively bad”…. fancy that! MURDER BY bad DECISION is NOT AN ACCIDENT. It is criminal insanity.

  15. AvatarTim

    Well it seems obvious to me that everyone that is criticizing this guy is NOT a pilot, or for that matter not even remotely involved in aviation. I know this sounds crazy, but did you know that aircraft without power don’t fly very well? It’s ok Tony and Eric, we don’t expect you to understand how to fly a plane as the most complicated object you’ve ever worked is probably a mechanical pencil. If it’s the government you criticizing, then leave the pilot out of it. He didn’t have a whole lot of options and chose what looked like the best and wouldn’t kill anyone. Updrafts, downdrafts, convective currents, and many other things made his plane veer off course. It could have been much worse. Here’s a few words for you to look up. #1 Altimeter-his was reading very low numbers #2Glide ratio-an F-18 doesn’t have a very good one #3 Ignorant-because that’s what you are. Flying a fighter jet is more complex than anything you’ve ever done, and you don’t get a seat in one by having a low IQ. They put those people behind computers that do everything for them so they can write articles that critique the people that actually do something with their life. Anyway, I’m sure you’re getting excited to go make fun of something else you know nothing about so I won’t waste any more of your time. Have a good day kid.

  16. AvatarTony Logan

    Tim, I don’t blame the pilot so much at all. Instead I blame the collective mass of nitwit Americans (like yourself, Tim) for allowing the Pentagon to have so many dangerous ‘toys’ for boys (like yourself, Tim) out there.

  17. AvatarEric

    By coincidence, I graduated from Flight School, actually.

    While we’re underestimating each other: have you done anything more complicated than copy-and-paste from Wikipedia?

    And I do blame the pilot. He should have gone down with his warship, instead of leaving it aimed at an inhabited neighborhood. Suck it up. What kind of cowboy passes his misfortune unto others?

  18. AvatarTim

    No actually. I went to flight school as well and have been flying airlines for fifteen years. Quite flattering that you thought it was copy and paste from wikipedia though.

  19. AvatarNick

    Funny how updrafts, downdrafts and convective currents don’t all occur in beautiful standard sunny weather…ass.

  20. Avatarjake

    ok ok heres the thing retards if you read properly youll realize that the pilot was at a low altitude and with no power not alot of altitude you cant do much with an f-18 but point it in a direction and hope it works out for the best he aimed it at a small canyon but because a plane cant fly with out power or mainly a fucking pilot its most likely to go ofcourse a bit and if you were up there id like to see you stay in the seat and fly it into the ground you low life worthless piece of scum youd pull the handle with your tail between your legs. updrafts, downdrafts and convective currents do happen and especially on sunny days when the sun is heating the ground….have you ever flown a glider?? on a warm day different parts of the ground refect different temps and cause updrafts and downdrafts, over a road….updraft over a massive block of houses…serious downdraft….now at high altitudes this wont effect the plane unless they are paddocks but at low altitude it will effect the plane and a f-18 isnt a glider so its ganna have even more issues…..i hate people like you. you just jump up and blame everyone when really theres nothing that could be done.. imagine the pilot he would be feeling like shit and he doesnt need fuckheads like you his head would be soo screwed up he is a trained professional who took an educated guess…which to you would be like how to throw a grenade into some place on one of your games like halo or some fucking shit…but to him it was a multi-million dollar plane his life and all the lives below him..dont you dare say that he didnt or doesnt give a fuck about the people on the ground cause thats not true so if you leave your mommas place and go out into the real world and get a job you might understand just the littlest slightest bit how to make a decision where something is at risk but if you were to do that your tough decision would prob be how long til you turn that sausage to then put it into a bun and serve with mustard and sauce. an f-18 with no engines low altitude is not ganna make it very far so if he were to stay in the plane the result would have been some what the same. why dont you go fucking die because you are worthless useless and all you do is sit in a dark room and write shit about stuff you dont even know about.

  21. EricEric

    I know about San Diego, it’s on the ocean. Got any flyboy insight into why he couldn’t hit that?

    This is less about the pilots than it is about a military who puts civilians, theirs and ours, in harms way. But it takes blame-shifting cowboys to do the deed.

    As the news unfolds of the atrocities of drones, air strikes and bombings, it won’t be up to you pilots to pretend their morality.

  22. Avatarjake

    he couldnt hit that because of his low altitude and no engine power and the big fact that an f-18 cant glide he aimed it at a canyon but it didnt work because a plane cant fly with out a pilot

    ok military mistake yes they shouldnt have put it near civilians im not to sure who was there first but usually it is the military and then the civilians move into and around the area and start complaining thats not right but if civilians were there first then yess military mistake.

    yes it is bad wat we can do with our weapons and they should be used responsibly. when in iraq they say that when they do damage analyzing with RAAF RAF and other countries airforces they are direct and mostly accurate and only cause harm to the enemy but with american crews there is nothing left to analyze they bomb it repeatedly and with high civilian harm. in my view we should just leave the rags to fight it out and not waste our money and resources on something we will never ever win

  23. EricEric

    I agree with you on everything except calling them “rags,” but then I called you “cowboys” so we’re even.

    Yes, let the Iraqis and Afghans determine their own governments and religion, even if it means they have to “fight it out.” We should play no part, until we learn to do it without weapons.

  24. Brother JonahBrother Jonah

    Jake, you’re bullshitin’, Bubba. That old boy was Hot-dogging. Showing off.

    The Navy will continue to let him fly even though he’s stupid. They let McCain continue Arrogant Hot-dog flying until he wiped out (..oh, I’m supposed to say “Got shot down” which we only have HIS word to confirm…) in his THIRD airplane crash. Maybe if he hadn’t been taken prisoner they would have let him wipe out two more Very Expensive Flying Murder Machines, that way, he would have been a Communist Ace.

  25. Avatarjake

    he wasnt showing off he was coming into land and his engines cut out which meant he could of had flaps down gear down which meant gliding off some where else impossible. and last time i checked you cant “hot-dogg” when you are coming into land you need to understand this “Brother Jonah” and let me tell you! you cant be stupid if your flying an f-18 let me tell you. id like to see you try youd prob kill yourself just sitting there on the tarmac doin warm up procedures.

    eric im glad we can agree finally…maybe it is military mistake but you cant blame it on the pilot thats not right he did all he could and did wat he thought was right but it didnt work out

    i just hope that you realise that this article you wrote is very biassed and not many facts are included its just….just hatred and its not right thats how wars are started thats why these machines were made and thats why we hav military not to mention back in the 16th century it was mostly to do with domination of we are better or your wrong or some bullshit like that

    you cant blame the pilot especially when you have no experience of been in his boots and you wouldnt of known the first thing that ran through his head imagine if he did do what you said and stayed with it til the ground and when the reports came out it said he had a wife and two or so kids imagine what would of been running through HIS mind at tha time not yours.

    these arent words with aggression but words with advice and meaning and hopfully you might learn somthing

    as to “Brother Jonah” before you mouth off think and actually get some facts because from what i can see you have no facts on the incident

  26. Brother JonahBrother Jonah

    Jake, I can mouth off despite your Military completely refusing to defend my right to do so.

    By the way, it was the United States Air Force who diagnosed me as being an analytic genius.

    OOPS… that’s your organization, isn’t it? Imagine that. The Military calls me both a Genius and an Idiot.

    There’s a new post for you to whine about. I just put it up. The evidence is anecdotal but since the sources were a couple of Airmen whose veracity, on that incident, I have absolutely no reason to doubt (they were boasting about being a party to murdering a Kurdish Shepherd) I’m going to run with it.

    John McCain probably simply lost control of Yet Another Very Expensive High Tech Murder Machine when he went into the lake outside Hanoi. How that relates, he and his comrades were indiscriminately dropping bombs on Civilians. The Navy Pilot in San Diego was training to go and drop bombs, indiscriminately, on Civilians.

    Voluntarily.

  27. Avatarjake

    nope thats not my organisation the RAAF is teehee
    and im not whining im just simply stating that you shouldnt blame the pilot he did the best he could his engines stalled on landing and he did the best he could to avert the plane away from housing. and what is your post good sir

  28. Brother JonahBrother Jonah

    Oh, you need somebody to point up your fallacies in order to validate yourself? Your Pentagon, Navy and the Corporate Political Parties, along with anybody who assumes that War Is Good have told the pilot’s side of the story.

    And most of them have said we’re “persecuting” them if we dare to talk back.
    Oh, Pity the Poor, Victimized Heavily Armed Baby-Killing Machine!

    John McCain crashed or got shot down while Murdering Civilians. That’s what aerial bombardment does.

    The Navy Pilot crashed into American Civilians while practicing to go overseas and Murder Afghan or Pakistani or Filipino or Iraqi KIDS.. Maybe he’ll switch from killing Muslim Babies to going to Honduras or Nicaragua or Venezuela and start bombing Christian Babies.

    Depending on who his Masters decide have the resources their Corporations want to plunder next, so they’ll “Liberate” the people (and the resources, can’t forget them, the people have to give the Corporations their resources because, you know, “Freedom Isn’t Free” and other retarded slogans).

    The Iraqi Oil Ministry are being naughty and not giving their “Liberators” a larger percentage of the Oil Money. Such Ingrates! We go in, rearrange their society to suit our priorities, kill a whole bunch of their people, and imprison/torture even more. And they don’t lick our boots in gratitude…

    The Pentagon hire people to spread a somewhat different version of that story, if you’re one of them you should charge us a lot less. Because ultimately it’s Taxpayers who pay the bill for the Pentagon Propaganda Bureau.

    But it’s not like there aren’t weblogs and newspaper and Television and especially Hate Radio propagandists telling the Poor Victimized Pilot’s side of the story.

  29. Brother JonahBrother Jonah

    Also you should charge them less, because you’re not doing them all that good a job. Maybe if you offered THEM money for the privilege of working for them.

    I didn’t read your last next to last post. I assumed it would be more personal attacks and Pentagon generated “facts” and made the Command Decision that reading it would be superfluous.

  30. Avatarjake

    ok ok im raaf u no the raaf royal australian air force i dont no bout the pentagon but i aint here to argue bout what the pentagon has done im here to point out the fact that this pilot did all he could and you my friend would do the exact same in his situation…providing you had the brains to be a pilot teeheee and the fact that this blog thingo is wrong kkkkkk??? dont giv shit bout pentagon teeheeee and yess they are killing babies because they dont aim your pilots they just bomb the shit outta it which they shouldnt like raaf or raf pilots take aim and use one bomb its wrong we ova there we wont win i no that but world leaders believe we can bring good which i doubt k so i agree with you on the level that its wrong we ova there and i agree that our weapons can be devastating but we must use them correctly with procession rightio but in my view we cant win ova there because the terrorist maybe killed but they’re kids are already brain washed to do the same thing i think we shuld just stay out and let them kill each other off to then solve our problems

  31. Brother JonahBrother Jonah

    Oh, I’ve the wit to be a pilot, and plenty to spare.
    That’s not even the point.

    You must have missed other commentary on it. The right wing here hailed the pilot as some kind of hero. We disagree.

    They hot dog like that over any city in America, they’ll for instance fly at less than 200 metres above our head several times a day practising low-altitude maneuvering. “Low Altitude” even at subsonic speeds is an oxymoron when combined with “maneuvering”. And, they’ll zoom us at supersonic speeds.

    So, pulling Mach-1, (little quick math problem for you), how much room do you have with a normal human reaction time? 200 metres is really pushing the envelope there. I try it on the simulator but that’s a simulator. If I make a simulated three-point landing under 10 feet of simulated dirt then I’ve displaced naught but a few million electrons and no harm done.

    The pilot parked his jet in a house occupied by Human Beings. As if that weren’t bad enough, the gentleman who owned the house, and whose wife and kids got killed therein, was first praised as a hero for “patriotically” praising the Navy for “defending freedom” and stating that he held no animosity for them.

    Then was vilified by the same “free” press when he filed a lawsuit for the recovery of expenses of his family being buried, his house and most of his possessions destroyed…

    They called him a Gold-digger exploiting the deaths of his family and destruction of their property for petitioning the government for redress of his very real grievance.

    See, politics is a little more involved than the relatively simple mechanisms of making an aircraft do what you want it to do.

    This issue is really contentious here in Colorado Springs since we have (the last time anybody mentioned the number to me) 18 military bases in close proximity. There’s also a huge number of businesses whose only trade is in War. With all that, and their exploitation of Religious issues to make their Death-Merchant enterprises seem moral and just, even still there’s an active core of persons such as Eric and really all of us who OPPOSE their Massive Wrongdoing.

    There’s no reason for me to believe that the constant attacks either by our Military or their Proxy Military Puppets (Like the RAAF) on the homes and lives of the people in Arabia and Asia (just to name two theatres of war) has a greater influence on the mindset of the kids than any “brainwashing” they recieve from their culture or religion.

    Now, with worldwide communications being what they are, idiots like the fellow who wrote in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS recently that all of them should be Crucified are not only talking to their own foolish circle of allies but to the entire world. Nothing like seeing your mates from school being blown to bits and then reading stupid racist comments like “they need to be crucified” and “they’re all brainwashed from childhood to be Terrorists” to cement a hatred of all things American in them.

    THEIR own Religious Extremists don’t have to tell them that All Americans Hate Them… They’re treated to a chorus of OUR Religious Extremists telling them that all Americans Hate Them.

    That and the only Americans they meet are pointing weapons at them and demanding that they (literally) Kneel in front of them (“Get down on your knees with your hands on your head NOW!” and then blowing them away if they fail to obey…)

    Given that routine, the few Army Politicians who tell them they’re being Liberated From Oppression (The actual motto of the Green Berets) are seen as punk-ass Liars.

    We get a slightly modified version of the same treatment here. They’ll gas us, use “control” weapons like microwave weapons, tasers, clubs, rubber bullets and bird-shot against us, and then demand that we THANK them for doing so, because they’re allegedly Fighting For Our Freedom.

    Like the pilot who crashed his plane into that home.

  32. Avatarjake

    do your pilots do mach1 ova land ova there shit man fucking sweet ova here we gotta go out ova the ocean cause last time we went mach 1.6 we broke a lot and i mean a shit load of windows.

    prob shouldnt point weapons at them and that wrong i agree and yea prob that stereotype of americans ova there not doin much good and yea ur government bit dumb for accusing that guy as a gold digger he needed money to rebuild his life

    but it is true the kids are taught to hate and are a bit brain washed and i see your point that us ova there isnt doin any good which is why i say we leave

    but the point for the low flying is that if your ever invaded would you prefer a trained pilot or some cock head who dont no what hes doin and crash

  33. AvatarEmmett Carson

    Mr. Verlo,

    It’s obvious that a combination of factors led you to your obtuse commentary of the F-18 accident in San Diego. First, it appears that your egocentric perspective steered the course, then your lack of knowledge led you to a dangerous conclusion. Your “research” should have included accuracy instead of shotgun mouthings of broad generalities. The F-18 is not even in the Air Force inventory.

    I too am deeply saddened by the loss of lives on the ground, but the dead family’s father had his head on straight. You should learn from his ability to realize that the accident that took his family from him was neither intentional nor ill planned. If a fuel line or gasket from a fuel control comes apart and sprays both engine bays, the onboard fire extinguishers cannot extinguish the flames, both engines shut down, the hydraulic systems fails from the heat or lack of engine rotation and stop moving the control surfaces after the plane is pointed at an unpopulated area, the pilot ejects as he has been trained to do, then this becomes a true accident.

    It’s also obvious that you have never served your country in the military, or you’d have thought about the inordinate amount of training each serviceman goes through before you spoke. Aviation requires even more advanced training. How can you combat train out of a base without overflying the area around it? Direct your anger at UAVs

  34. EricEric

    Emmett-
    Blame the unmanned planes? Haha. Obviously you do miss the point. You servicemen are to blame for civilian deaths, even accidental. The point is that our military puts countless innocents at risk, and they couldn’t do it without people who obey their orders. This TopGun may have been perfectly trained, he bears the responsibility and should have taken the plane down himself to assure he would be its only casualty.

    The Air Force reference was a comparison to the airmen we have in Colorado Springs, same animal. Exhaustively trained to be sure, but deficient in moral rectitude.

  35. AvatarBrother Jonah

    Does that mean too, that the Dead Kurdish shepherd from another “accident” should have been grateful, or his family grateful, that the U.S. Air Force murdered him? Because the pilot couldn’t tell the difference between sheep and humans….

    Near as I can see, which is a lot more than the so-called Expert Military testimony (usually accompanied by a veiled threat that we don’t have a right to talk about these things, only the Professional Killers have a right to criticize the Professional Killers) would acknowledge to be accurate or lucid, there hasn’t been a war for American freedom in my 50 year lifetime. Plenty of wars wherein the American Military either successfully or not, attempted to take away the national and individual freedoms of people in nations around the world, nations which all have one thing in common… They Are Not American Property…

    Everywhere from Central America to Central Africa to Central Asia, the Top Gun pilots and Green Berets and Delta Force and the C.I.A. Torture and Assassination Squads have been running or attempting to run countries which don’t belong to us.

    In the meantime, they’ve sucked Americas bank account dry, and put us trillions of dollars in debt by acting as a Publicly Funded Private Death Machine for American Corporations… not the American People and certainly not the people in the nations that were “liberated”.

    Which is what Hot-Dog Captain America was training to do when he ditched his plane into a population center.

    Maybe if the U.S. Navy and U.S.A.F. wouldn’t use American Civilians as “Human Shields” for their Terrorist Training Camps the problem wouldn’t exist.

    Since when does forgiving the murderers of his family rather than objecting loudly to the murders make him more sane or “level headed” than those of us who DO have the cojones to object? The God-Damn Navy murdered his family. And they still use the same training patterns and the same training methods. The Air Force does that here in Colorado Springs, No changes made other than the increase in the sheer number of flights.

    And there’s no “defense” of America involved, the only wars we’re involved in right now are Wars of Conquest on behalf of the Lying Thieves who own the Oil Corporations. Let the Air Force and Navy do their low-altitude high speed flights in the Country Club neighborhoods instead of for instance the houses and families (children) in my neighborhood. The Richest are the only ones who benefit from the wars, they should therefore take the full measure of the risks associated with running those wars. So far the overwhelming majority of Military respondents to this discussion have said bullshit along the lines of “the Kids and other civilians who get killed in these accidents ought to be PROUD to be accidental targets for the Mighty Empire”. Shit on that.

  36. Avatarfighterpilotdemocrat

    Bottom line… Bush put us in a war that we may not need to be in, but we are. There’s no going back in time. So, if nobody steps up to finish the job, a whole bunch more than 3 people will die in one of two ways. We will either be undermanned in Afghanistan, where we truly need to be, leaving our allies to die there fighting a war that they believe in just as much as we (those of us that are actual Americans) do. Or, without putting pressure on the bad guys, they will have more room and time to plan another attack like the WTC on the US, or another country. We are in this mess whether we want to be on not at this point. If we just leave, we will make a mockery of US foreign relations worldwide. We have stripped these countries down with the intent to rebuild them with a more stable government. If we just leave, they will be worse off than they are now, or were before, and we will have created a HUGE supply of new enemies worldwide. On another note, You all seem to think that you will be just fine and safe without any military. I don’t understand this. The second we downgrade our military, we will open a door for enemies of any nation or religion to hit us hard. The reason that war is a commonality in regions of the world, but not in the US is because of our military. YOUR WELCOME. Out of a country of 308 Million people, 3 people died due to a training mishap that was not pilot error, it was a mechanical failure. Just for perspective, EVERY 2 hours, 3 people die due to drunk driving.

  37. AvatarBrother Jonah

    Bottom Line, following orders without questioning them is a simple matter of turning off your brain. You remember that necessary piece of equipment? And I don’t see organized gangs of Drunk Drivers drinking and driving in our general direction.

    Or practicing to actually kill people with their cars, in an organized manner. Mr Bush lied us into the war but that’s not an excuse to continue it.
    The “we broke it thus we’re obligated to continue breaking it” rule? Jesus, dude, did you ever consider that continuing a crime spree really doesn’t have a defense? It still boils down to one argument, that you’re told to do something and you believe you have no choice but to obey.

    If you had the opportunity to speak to any one of the victims of that crime spree before executing him from such “necessity” what exactly would you say? “gee, sir or madame or helpless infant, I have to kill you and the only reason I can muster is (pointing to your commander) he told me to do it so too bad, so sad, you die”?
    Well, you might think you didn’t have that opportunity to tell the victims of your Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines/Corporate Slaves’ actions, but you just did.

    Or some of them at least. Maybe you could go door-to-door in the neighborhoods where your next victims live and explain to them in advance why you feel they HAVE to die? Maybe if you looked into their eyes before snuffing their God-given candle flame of life, that would make all better, yes?

    As for me, I used to be a flag wave, believing the Boy Scout horseshit they fed me and are still feeding you. Then I realized, and the realization GROWS, the military of any nation is no more legitimate than the hit-men of any OTHER criminal organization. You do what you’re told, I’ll do what I think best. Use MY conscience and my intellect for what I can see or feel or think is correct and without having any organizational command structure to hide my decision behind.

    Ultimately, your decision to continue on your path is YOUR decision, not those of your commanders. Even if your commanders have you intimidated into such abject silence that you can’t even question your own conscience.

  38. AvatarBrother Jonah

    The Air Force tried to install the automatic “off” switch on my conscience, through the usual channels; indoctrination throughout childhood, basic training, Tech school, chaplain, the command structure organized to continue and reinforce the indoctrination started the first time you look at a TV or a movie poster and see movies, toys, songs, all glorifying the Religion of Total Obedience aka “War”. “our” Allies the Israelis keep putting forth propaganda to the effect that those Evil Bad Wicked Naughty Hamas people allow their children to play with a doll representing a Hamas paramilitary fighter. Kind of like the GI Joe doll only the GI Joe and now, even Barbie, baptized and sanitized merely by saying that the GI Jihad doll is inherently evil and thus the even more outrageously obvious Brainwashing installed into American kids to become soldiers and pilots and cops and whatever euphemisms one can make for “Killers”.

    Good when WE do it, BAD when anybody else does.

    By the way, I say “installed” rather than instilled, simply from my own Air Force experience, where I trained as a Medic. Or, as was not-very-patiently explained to me, nothing more than a Monkey-mechanic, insuring that every part of the Killing Machine works perfectly, meaning… that all the personnel of the military are in fact merely cogs, bearings, rotors, wheels tires and treads of the Killing Machine, no longer viewed by the Military as even Human.

    They sought to install one attitude on me, and instilled a quite different one, one they reinforced every time I saw and still see the arrogance of the Original Equipment attitude in action, from Cop on the street to Politician running for the job of pretending to represent the People rather than The Machine, to the really shitty way discarded ex-soldiers are treated once they’re no longer compliant and useful to The Killing Machine. I recognize the attitude, the one they failed to mold onto me, when and where ever it’s exhibited.

  39. AvatarBrother Jonah

    Just an afterthought, since the war is continued for the benefit of Corporate interests, maybe you could justify the death toll by cheerily reminding people that the Insurance Companies kill 120 Americans every day due to denial of health care. It might help you to justify fighting for the Corporate Privilege to do shit like that.

  40. AvatarNick K

    Eric

    “This TopGun may have been perfectly trained, he bears the responsibility and should have taken the plane down himself to assure he would be its only casualty”.

    HOLY SHIT, I havent laughed that hard in a long time. Im glad we train pilots for two years in order for them to “Go down with the ship”.

    And now Jonah

    Are you homosexual? or from California?
    Valid questions by the way you have presented yourself

    Semper Fidelis

  41. AvatarBrother Jonah

    Holy Shit! I know it can’t be every Marine who’s that stupid!
    Never been to California, and you sure seem hung up on that Homo deal. Repressed much?

  42. AvatarBrother Jonah

    Anyway, bub, can’t help you on the gay deal. I’m not any kind of counselor. That’s assuming you heard that people who actually don’t hate people are all gay and you came looking for a date. Which would probably be why you asked where I’m at.

    But that’s not my real assumption. My real assumption is that you’re a cop simply because, you know, that’s how you present yourself. Want to get all aggressive, take control of conversations with people you never met and don’t know a fuckin’ thing about them. So you started off like an interrogator. that would put you in league with Torturers, cause on account of that’s what military Pigs do nowadays.

    Always have, but now you have what’s known as Carte Blanche, which is French for “blank check” or “blank warrant”.

    So, the Marines taught you what, again? Torture people who are handcuffed and helpless? That’s a real sexual problem you got there, bub. Torturers can only get a “date” with help from their Pig buddies. Only real way you can get victims.

    See, this is somebody assuming that you’re a pig because you present yourself like that. The Air Force wanted me to become a Pig but I declined. Just can’t seem to get my dick to work by hitting people. Or shooting people from the relative safety of an organized Gang like the Marine Corps or Army or Air Force.

    If you’re a Marine pilot, then you get your pay and sexual giggles from dropping bombs on people from so high up they can’t see you. Usually people without an Air Force or even Air Defense Artillery, and from what came out recently, people who aren’t even military. Seems your Fearful Leaders at the Pentagon are upset that their nasty little lies have been exposed as nasty little lies.

    I guess you don’t realize this, since you personally never had courage or anything like that, but honesty is a hallmark of courage. Your Masters (lick them Pentagon Boots, BOY!) at the Pentagon aren’t upset that the Wikileaks revelations are true, they’re upset because people know that you jerkoff bastards have been lying. Which a lot of us already knew. Killing civilians deliberately, for instance. Let’s say, just for shits and giggles, that you’re actually a pilot and have some faint idea, at least, about what Military Pilots actually do.
    They kill people they can’t even see. A whole lot of the people they kill happen to be kids. That means they either like killing kids or somebody is forcing them into the cockpit, forcing them to fly to where the soon-to-be-killed children are sleeping or playing or whatever Human Child activity they’re engaged in doing when your plane appears over the horizon, drops the bombs and ends their lives.

    Semper Fi, bitch.

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