Weatherman Manifesto

You Don’t Need A Weatherman
To Know Which Way The Wind Blows

June 18, 1969

Bernadine Dohrn addresses S.D.S. in ChicagoSubmitted by Karin Asbley, Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, John Jacobs, Jeff Jones, Gerry Long, Home Machtinger, Jim Mellen, Terry Robbins, Mark Rudd and Steve Tappis.

I. International Revolution

The contradiction between the revolutionary peoples of Asia, Africa and Latin America and the imperialists headed by the United States is the principal contradiction in the contemporary world. The development of this contradiction is promoting the struggle of the people of the whole world against US imperialism and its lackeys.

Lin Piao, Long Live the Victory of People’s War!

People ask, what is the nature of the revolution that we talk about- Who will it be made by, and for, and what are its goals and strategy-

The overriding consideration in answering these questions is that the main struggle going on in the world today is between US imperialism and the national liberation struggles against it. This is essential in defining political matters in the whole world: because it is by far the most powerful, every other empire and petty dictator is in the long run dependent on US imperialism, which has unified, allied with, and defended all of the reactionary forces of the whole world. Thus, in considering every other force or phenomenon, from Soviet imperialism or Israeli imperialism to “workers struggle” in France or Czechoslovakia, we determine who are our friends and who are our enemies according to whether they help US imperialism or fight to defeat it.

So the very first question people in this country must ask in considering the question of revolution is where they stand in relation to the United States as an oppressor nation, and where they stand in relation to the masses of people throughout the world whom US imperialism is oppressing.

The primary task of revolutionary struggle is to solve this principal contradiction on the side of the people of the world. It is the oppressed peoples of the world who have created the wealth of this empire and it is to them that it belongs; the goal of the revolutionary struggle must be the control and use of this wealth in the interests of the oppressed peoples of the world.

It is in this context that we must examine the revolutionary struggles in the United States. We are within the heartland of a worldwide monster, a country so rich from its worldwide plunder that even the crumbs doled out to the enslaved masses within its borders provide for material existence very much above the conditions of the masses of people of the world. The US empire, as a worldwide system, channels wealth, based upon the labor and resources of the rest of the world, into the United States. The relative affluence existing in the United States is directly dependent upon the labor and natural resources of the Vietnamese, the Angolans, the Bolivians and the rest of the peoples of the Third World. All of the United Airlines Astrojets, all of the Holiday Inns, all of Hertz’s automobiles, your television set, car and wardrobe already belong, to a large degree to the people of the rest of the world.

Therefore, any conception of “socialist revolution” simply in terms of the working people of the United States, failing to recognize the full scope of interests of the most oppressed peoples of the world, is a conception of a fight for a particular privileged interest, and is a very dangerous ideology. While the control and use of the wealth of the Empire for the people of the whole world is also in the interests of the vast majority of the people in this country, if the goal is not clear from the start we will further the preservation of class society, oppression, war, genocide, and the complete emiseration of everyone, including the people of the US.

The goal is the destruction of US imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world communism. Winning state power in the US will occur as a result of the military forces of the US overextending themselves around the world and being defeated piecemeal; struggle within the US will be a vital part of this process, but when the revolution triumphs in the US it will have been made by the people of the whole world. For socialism to be defined in national terms within so extreme and historical an oppressor nation as this is only imperialist national chauvinism on the part of the “movement.”

II. What Is The Black Colony-

Not every colony of people oppressed by imperialism lies outside the boundaries of the US. Black people within North America, brought here 400 years ago as slaves and whose labor, as slaves, built this country, are an internal colony within the confines of the oppressor nation. What this means is that black people are oppressed as a whole people, in the institutions and social relations of the country, apart from simply the consideration of their class position, income, skill, etc., as individuals- What does this colony look like- What is the basis for its common oppression and why is it important-

One historically important position has been that the black colony only consists of the black belt nation in the South, whose fight for national liberation is based on a common land, culture, history and economic life. The corollary of this position is that black people in the rest of the country are a national minority but not actually part of the colony themselves; so the struggle for national liberation is for the black belt, and not all blacks; black people in the north, not actually part of the colony, are part of the working class of the white oppressor nation. In this formulation northern black workers have a “dual role”—one an interest in supporting the struggle in the South, and opposing racism, as members of the national minority; and as northern “white nation” workers whose class interest is in integrated socialism in the north. The consistent version of this line actually calls for integrated organizing of black and white workers in the north along what it calls “class” lines.

This position is wrong; in reality, the black colony does not exist simply as the “black belt nation,” but exists in the country as a whole. The common oppression of black people and the common culture growing out of that history are not based historically or currently on their relation to the territory of the black belt, even though that has been a place of population concentration and has some very different characteristics than the north, particularly around the land question.

Rather, the common features of oppression, history and culture which unify black people as a colony (although originating historically in a common territory apart from the colonizers, i.e., Africa, not the South) have been based historically on their common position as slaves, which since the nominal abolition of slavery has taken the form of caste oppression, and oppression of black people as a people everywhere that they exist. A new black nation, different from the nations of Africa from which it came, has been forged by the common historical experience of importation and slavery and caste oppression; to claim that to be a nation it must of necessity now be based on a common national territory apart from the colonizing nation is a mechanical application of criteria which were and are applicable to different situations.

What is specifically meant by the term caste is that all black people, on the basis of their common slave history, common culture and skin color are systematically denied access to particular job categories (or positions within job categories), social position, etc., regardless of individual skills, talents, money or education. Within the working class, they are the most oppressed section; in the petit bourgeoisie, they are even more strictly confined to the lowest levels. Token exceptions aside, the specific content of this caste oppression is to maintain black people in the most exploitative and oppressive jobs and conditions. Therefore, since the lowest class is the working class, the black caste is almost entirely a caste of the working class, or [holds] positions as oppressed as the lower working-class positions (poor black petit bourgeoisie and farmers); it is a colonial labor caste,, a colony whose common national character itself is defined by their common class position.

Thus, northern blacks do not have a “dual interest”—as blacks on the one hand and “US-nation workers” on the other. They have a single class interest, along with all other black people in the US, as members of the Black Proletarian Colony.

III. The Struggle For Socialist Self-Determination

The struggle of black people—as a colony—is for self-determination, freedom, and liberation from US imperialism. Because blacks have been oppressed and held in an inferior social position as a people, they have a right to decide, organize and act on their common destiny as a people apart from white interference. Black self-determination does not simply apply to determination of their collective political destiny at some future time. It is directly tied to the fact that because all blacks experience oppression in a form that no whites do, no whites are in a position to fully understand and test from their own practice the real situation black people face and the necessary response to it. This is why it is necessary for black people to organize separately and determine their actions separately at each stage of the struggle.

It is important to understand the implications of this. It is not legitimate for whites to organizationally intervene in differences among revolutionary black nationalists. It would be arrogant for us to attack any black organization that defends black people and opposes imperialism in practice. But it is necessary to develop a correct understanding of the Black Liberation struggle within our own organization, where an incorrect one will further racist practice in our relations with the black movement.

In the history of some external colonies, such as China and Vietnam, the struggle for self-determination has had two stages: (1) a united front against imperialism and for New Democracy (which is a joint dictatorship of anti-colonial classes led by the proletariat, the content of which is a compromise between the interests of the proletariat and nationalist peasants, petit bourgeoisie and national bourgeoisie); and (2) developing out of the new democratic stage, socialism.

However, the black liberation struggle in this country will have only one “stage”; the struggle for self-determination will embody within it the struggle for socialism.

As Huey P. Newton has said, “In order to be a revolutionary nationalist, you would of necessity have to be a socialist.” This is because—given the caste quality of oppression-as-a-people-through-a-common-degree-of-exploitation—self-determination requires being free from white capitalist exploitation in the form of inferior (lower caste) jobs, housing, schools, hospitals, prices. In addition, only what was or became in practice a socialist program for self-determination—one which addressed itself to reversing this exploitation—could win the necessary active mass support in the “proletarian colony.”

The program of a united front for new democracy, on the other hand, would not be as thorough, and so would not win as active and determined support from the black masses. The only reason for having such a front would be where the independent petit bourgeois forces which it would bring in would add enough strength to balance the weakening of proletarian backing. This is not the case: first, because much of the black petit bourgeoisie is actually a “comprador” petit bourgeoisie (like so-called black capitalists who are promoted by the power structure to seem independent but are really agents of white monopoly capital), who would never fight as a class for any real self-determination; and secondly, because many black petit bourgeoisie, perhaps most, while not having a class interest in socialist self-determination, are close enough to the black masses in the oppression and limitations on their conditions that they will support many kinds of self-determination issues, and, especially when the movement is winning, can be won to support full (socialist) self-determination. For the black movement to work to maximize this support from the petit bourgeoisie is correct; but it is in no way a united front where it is clear that the Black Liberation Movement should not and does not modify the revolutionary socialist content of its stand to win that support.

From /New Left Notes/, June 18, 1969

IV. Black Liberation Means Revolution

What is the relationship of the struggle for black self-determination to the whole worldwide revolution to defeat US imperialism and internationalize its resources toward the goal of creating a classless world-

No black self-determination could be won which would not result in a victory for the international revolution as a whole. The black proletarian colony, being dispersed as such a large and exploited section of the work force, is essential to the survival of imperialism. Thus, even if the black liberation movement chose to try to attain self-determination in the form of a separate country (a legitimate part of the right to self-determination), existing side by side with the US, imperialism could not survive if they won it—and so would never give up without being defeated. Thus, a revolutionary nationalist movement could not win without destroying the state power of the imperialists; and it is for this reason that the black liberation movement, as a revolutionary nationalist movement for self-determination, is automatically in and of itself an inseparable part of the whole revolutionary struggle against US imperialism and for international socialism.

However, the fact that black liberation depends on winning the whole revolution does not mean that it depends on waiting for and joining with a mass white movement to do it. The genocidal oppression of black people must be ended, and does not allow any leisure time to wait; if necessary, black people could win self-determination, abolishing the whole imperialist system and seizing state power to do it, without this white movement, although the cost among whites and blacks both would be high.

Blacks could do it alone if necessary because of their centralness to the system, economically and geo-militarily, and because of the level of unity, commitment, and initiative which will be developed in waging a people’s war for survival and national liberation. However, we do not expect that they will have to do it alone, not only because of the international situation, but also because the real interests of masses of oppressed whites in this country lie with the Black Liberation struggle, and the conditions for understanding and fighting for these interests grow with the deepening of the crises. Already, the black liberation movement has carried with it an upsurge of revolutionary consciousness among white youth; and while there are no guarantees, we can expect that this will extend and deepen among all oppressed whites.

To put aside the possibility of blacks winning alone leads to the racist position that blacks should wait for whites and are dependent on whites acting for them to win. Yet the possibility of blacks winning alone cannot in the least be a justification for whites failing to shoulder the burden of developing a revolutionary movement among whites. If the first error is racism by holding back black liberation, this would be equally racist by leaving blacks isolated to take on the whole fight—and the whole cost—for everyone.

It is necessary to defeat both racist tendencies: (1) that blacks shouldn’t go ahead with making the revolution, and (2) that blacks should go ahead alone with making it. The only third path is to build a white movement which will support the blacks in moving as fast as they have to and are able to, and still itself keep up with that black movement enough so that white revolutionaries share the cost and the blacks don’t have to do the whole thing alone. Any white who does not follow this third path is objectively following one of the other two (or both) and is objectively racist.

V. Anti-Imperialist Revolution And The United Front

Since the strategy for defeating imperialism in semi-feudal colonies has two stages, the new democratic stage of a united front to throw out imperialism and then the socialist stage, some people suggest two stages for the US too—one to stop imperialism, the anti-imperialist stage, and another to achieve the dictatorship of the proletariat, the socialist stage. It is no accident that even the proponents of this idea can’t tell you what it means. In reality, imperialism is a predatory international stage of capitalism. Defeating imperialism within the US couldn’t possibly have the content, which it could in a semi-feudal country, of replacing imperialism with capitalism or new democracy; when imperialism is defeated in the US, it will be replaced by socialism—nothing else. One revolution, one replacement process, one seizure of state power—the anti-imperialist revolution and the socialist revolution, one and the same stage. To talk of this as two separate stages, the struggle to overthrow imperialism and the struggle for socialist revolution, is as crazy as if Marx had talked about the proletarian socialist revolution as a revolution of two stages, one the overthrow of capitalist state power, and second the establishment of socialist state power.

Along with no two stages, there is no united front with the petit bourgeoisie, because its interests as a class aren’t for replacing imperialism with socialism. As far as people within this country are concerned, the international war against imperialism is the same task as the socialist revolution, for one overthrow of power here. There is no “united front” for socialism here.

One reason people have considered the “united front” idea is the fear that if we were talking about a one-stage socialist revolution we would fail to organize maximum possible support among people, like some petit bourgeoisie, who would fight imperialism on a particular issue, but weren’t for revolution. When the petit bourgeoisie’s interest is for fighting imperialism on a particular issue, but not for overthrowing it and replacing it with socialism, it is still contributing to revolution to that extent—not to some intermediate thing which is not imperialism and not socialism. Someone not for revolution is not for actually defeating imperialism either, but we still can and should unite with them on particular issues. But this is not a united front (and we should not put forth some joint “united front” line with them to the exclusion of our own politics), because their class position isn’t against imperialism as a system. In China, or Vietnam, the petit bourgeoisie’s class interests could be for actually winning against imperialism; this was because their task was driving it out, not overthrowing its whole existence. For us here, “throwing it out” means not from one colony, but all of them, throwing it out of the world, the same thing as overthrowing it.

VI. International Strategy

What is the strategy of this international revolutionary movement- What are the strategic weaknesses of the imperialists which make it possible for us to win- Revolutionaries around the world are in general agreement on the answer, which Lin Piao describes in the following way:

US imperialism is stronger, but also more vulnerable, than any imperialism of the past. It sets itself against the people of the whole world, including the people of the United States. Its human, military, material and financial resources are far from sufficient for the realization of its ambition of domination over the whole world. US imperialism has further weakened itself by occupying so many places in the world, overreaching itself, stretching its fingers out wide and dispersing its strength, with its rear so far away and its supply lines so long.

—/Long Live the Victory of People’s War/

The strategy which flows from this is what Ché called “creating two, three, many Vietnams”—to mobilize the struggle so sharply in so many places that the imperialists cannot possibly deal with it all. Since it is essential to their interests, they will try to deal with it all, and will be defeated and destroyed in the process.

In defining and implementing this strategy, it is clear that the vanguard (that is, the section of the people who are in the forefront of the struggle and whose class interests and needs define the terms and tasks of the revolution) of the “American Revolution” is the workers and oppressed peoples of the colonies of Asia, Africa and Latin America. Because of the level of special oppression of black people as a colony, they reflect the interests of the oppressed people of the world from within the borders of the United States; they are part of the Third World and part of the international revolutionary vanguard.

The vanguard role of the Vietnamese and other Third World countries in defeating US imperialism has been clear to our movement for some time. What has not been so clear is the vanguard role black people have played, and continue to play, in the development of revolutionary consciousness and struggle within the United States. Criticisms of the black liberation struggle as being “reactionary” or of black organizations on campus as being conservative or “racist” very often express this lack of understanding. These ideas are incorrect and must be defeated if a revolutionary movement is going to be built among whites.

The black colony, due to its particular nature as a slave colony, never adopted a chauvinist identification with America as an imperialist power, either politically or culturally. Moreover, the history of black people in America has consistently been one of the greatest overall repudiations of and struggle against the state. From the slave ships from Africa to the slave revolts, the Civil War, etc., black people have been waging a struggle for survival and liberation. In the history of our own movement this has also been the case: the civil rights struggles, initiated and led by blacks in the South; the rebellions beginning with Harlem in 1964 and Watts in 1965 through Detroit and Newark in 1967; the campus struggles at all-black schools in the South and struggles led by blacks on campuses all across the country. As it is the blacks—along with the Vietnamese and other Third World people—who are most oppressed by US imperialism, their class interests are most solidly and resolutely committed to waging revolutionary struggle through to its completion. Therefore it is no surprise that time and again, in both political content and level of consciousness and militancy, it has been the black liberation movement which has upped the ante and defined the terms of the struggle.

What is the relationship of this “black vanguard” to the “many Vietnams” around the world- Obviously this is an example of our strategy that different fronts reinforce each other. The fact that the Vietnamese are winning weakens the enemy, advancing the possibilities for the black struggle, etc. But it is important for us to understand that the interrelationship is more than this. Black people do not simply “choose” to intensify their struggle because they want to help the Vietnamese, or because they see that Vietnam heightens the possibilities for struggle here. The existence of any one Vietnam, especially a winning one, spurs on others not only through consciousness and choice, but through need, because it is a political and economic, as well as military, weakening of capitalism, and this means that to compensate, the imperialists are forced to intensify their oppression of other people.

Thus the loss of China and Cuba and the loss now of Vietnam not only encourages other oppressed peoples (such as the blacks) by showing what the alternative is and that it can be won, but also costs the imperialists billions of dollars which they then have to take out of the oppression of these other peoples. Within this country increased oppression falls heavier on the most oppressed sections of the population, so that the condition of all workers is worsened through rising taxes, inflation and the fall of real wages, and speedup. But this increased oppression falls heaviest on the most oppressed, such as poor white workers and, especially, the blacks, for example through the collapse of state services like schools, hospitals and welfare, which naturally hits the hardest at those most dependent on them.

This deterioration pushes people to fight harder to even try to maintain their present level. The more the ruling class is hurt in Vietnam, the harder people will be pushed to rebel and to fight for reforms. Because there exist successful models of revolution in Cuba, Vietnam, etc., these reform struggles will provide a continually larger and stronger base for revolutionary ideas. Because it needs to maximize profits by denying the reforms, and is aware that these conditions and reform struggles will therefore lead to revolutionary consciousness, the ruling class will see it more and more necessary to come down on any motion at all, even where it is not yet highly organized or conscious. It will come down faster on black people, because their oppression is increasing fastest, and this makes their rebellion most thorough and most dangerous, and fastest growing. It is because of this that the vanguard character and role of the black liberation struggle will be increased and intensified, rather than being increasingly equal to and merged into the situation and rebellion of oppressed white working people and youth. The crises of imperialism (the existence of Vietnam and especially that it’s winning) will therefore create a “Black Vietnam” within the US.

Given that black self-determination would mean fully crushing the power of the imperialists, this “Vietnam” has certain different characteristics than the external colonial wars. The imperialists will never “get out of the US” until their total strength and every resource they can bring to bear has been smashed; so the Black Vietnam cannot win without bringing the whole thing down and winning for everyone. This means that this war of liberation will be the most protracted and hardest fought of all.

It is in this context that the question of the South must be dealt with again, not as a question of whether or not the black nation, black colony, exists there, as opposed to in the North as well, but rather as a practical question of strategy and tactics: Can the black liberation struggle—the struggle of all blacks in the country—gain advantage in the actual war of liberation by concentrating on building base areas in the South in territory with a concentration of black population-

This is very clearly a different question than that of “where the colony is,” and to this question the “yes” answer is an important possibility. If the best potential for struggle in the South were realized, it is fully conceivable and legitimate that the struggle there could take on the character of a fight for separation; and any victories won in that direction would be important gains for the national liberation of the colony as a whole. However, because the colony is dispersed over the whole country, and not just located in the black belt, winning still means the power and liberation of blacks in the whole country.

Thus, even the winning of separate independence in the South would still be one step toward self-determination, and not equivalent to winning it; which, because of the economic position of the colony as a whole, would still require overthrowing the state power of the imperialists, taking over production and the whole economy and power, etc.

VII. The Revolutionary Youth Movement: Class Analysis

The revolutionary youth movement program was hailed as a transition strategy, which explained a lot of our past work and pointed to new directions for our movement. But as a transition to what- What was our overall strategy- Was the youth movement strategy just an organizational strategy because SDS is an organization of youth and we can move best with other young people-

We have pointed to the vanguard nature of the black struggle in this country as part of the international struggle against American imperialism, and the impossibility of anything but an international strategy for winning. Any attempt to put forth a strategy which, despite internationalist rhetoric, assumes a purely internal development to the class struggle in this country, is incorrect. The Vietnamese (and the Uruguayans and the Rhodesians) and the blacks and Third World peoples in this country will continue to set the terms for class struggle in America.

In this context, why an emphasis on youth- Why should young people be willing to fight on the side of Third World peoples- Before dealing with this question about youth, however, there follows a brief sketch of the main class categories in the white mother country which we think are important, and [which] indicate our present estimation of their respective class interests (bearing in mind that the potential for various sections to understand and fight for the revolution will vary according to more than just their real class interests).

Most of the population is of the working class, by which we mean not simply industrial or production workers, nor those who are actually working, but the whole section of the population which doesn’t own productive property and so lives off of the sale of its labor power. This is not a metaphysical category either in terms of its interests, the role it plays, or even who is in it, which very often is difficult to determine.

As a whole, the long-range interests of the non-colonial sections of the working class lie with overthrowing imperialism, with supporting self-determination for the oppressed nations (including the black colony), with supporting and fighting for international socialism. However, virtually all of the white working class also has short-range privileges from imperialism, which are not false privileges but very real ones which give them an edge of vested interest and tie them to a certain extent to the imperialists, especially when the latter are in a relatively prosperous phase. When the imperialists are losing their empire, on the other hand, these short-range privileged interests are seen to be temporary (even though the privileges may be relatively greater over the faster-increasing emiseration of the oppressed peoples). The long-range interests of workers in siding with the oppressed peoples are seen more clearly in the light of imperialism’s impending defeat. Within the whole working class, the balance of anti-imperialist class interests with white mother country short-term privilege varies greatly.

First, the most oppressed sections of the mother country working class have interests most clearly and strongly anti-imperialist. Who are the most oppressed sections of the working class- Millions of whites who have as oppressive material conditions as the blacks, or almost so: especially poor southern white workers; the unemployed or semi-employed, or those employed at very low wages for long hours and bad conditions, who are non-unionized or have weak unions; and extending up to include much of unionized labor which has it a little better off but still is heavily oppressed and exploited. This category covers a wide range and includes the most oppressed sections not only of production and service workers but also some secretaries, clerks, etc. Much of this category gets some relative privileges (i.e. benefits) from imperialism, which constitute some material basis for being racist or pro-imperialist; but overall it is itself directly and heavily oppressed, so that in addition to its long-range class interest on the side of the people of the world, its immediate situation also constitutes a strong basis for sharpening the struggle against the state and fighting through to revolution.

Secondly, there is the upper strata of the working class. This is also an extremely broad category, including the upper strata of unionized skilled workers and also most of the “new working class” of proletarianized or semi-proletarianized “intellect workers.” There is no clearly marked dividing line between the previous section and this one; our conclusions in dealing with “questionable” strata will in any event have to come from more thorough analysis of particular situations. The long-range class interests of this strata, like the previous section of more oppressed workers, are for the revolution and against imperialism. However, it is characterized by a higher level of privilege relative to the oppressed colonies, including the blacks, and relative to more oppressed workers in the mother country; so that there is a strong material basis for racism and loyalty to the system. In a revolutionary situation, where the people’s forces were on the offensive and the ruling class was clearly losing, most of this upper strata of the working class will be winnable to the revolution, while at least some sections of it will probably identify their interests with imperialism till the end and oppose the revolution (which parts do which will have to do with more variables than just the particular level of privilege). The further development of the situation will clarify where this section will go, although it is clear that either way we do not put any emphasis on reaching older employed workers from this strata at this time. The exception is where they are important to the black liberation struggle, the Third World, or the youth movement in particular situations, such as with teachers, hospital technicians, etc., in which cases we must fight particularly hard to organize them around a revolutionary line of full support for black liberation and the international revolution against US imperialism. This is crucial because the privilege of this section of the working class has provided and will provide a strong material basis for national chauvinist and social democratic ideology within the movement, such as anti-internationalist concepts of “student power” and “workers control.” Another consideration in understanding the interests of this segment is that, because of the way it developed and how its skills and its privileges were “earned over time,” the differential between the position of youth and older workers is in many ways greater for this section than any other in the population. We should continue to see it as important to build the revolutionary youth movement among the youth of this strata.

Thirdly, there are “middle strata” who are not petit bourgeoisie, who may even technically be upper working class, but who are so privileged and tightly tied to imperialism through their job roles that they are agents of imperialism. This section includes management personnel, corporate lawyers, higher civil servants, and other government agents, army officers, etc. Because their job categories require and promote a close identification with the interests of the ruling class, these strata are enemies of the revolution.

Fourthly, and last among the categories we’re going to deal with, is the petit bourgeoisie. This class is different from the middle level described above in that it has the independent class interest which is opposed to both monopoly power and to socialism. The petit bourgeoisie consists of small capital—both business and farms—and self-employed tradesmen and professionals (many professionals work for monopoly capital, and are either the upper level of the working class or in the dent class interests-anti-monopoly capital, but for capitalism rather than socialism—gives it a political character of some opposition to “big government,” like its increased spending and taxes and its totalitarian extension of its control into every aspect of life, and to “big labor,” which is at this time itself part of the monopoly capitalist power structure. The direction which this opposition takes can be reactionary or reformist. At this time the reformist side of it is very much mitigated by the extent to which the independence of the petit bourgeoisie is being undermined. Increasingly, small businesses are becoming extensions of big ones, while professionals and self-employed tradesmen less and less sell their skills on their own terms and become regular employees of big firms. This tendency does not mean that the reformist aspect is not still present; it is, and there are various issues, like withdrawing from a losing imperialist war, where we could get support from them. On the question of imperialism as a system, however, their class interests are generally more for it than for overthrowing it, and it will be the deserters from their class who stay with us.

VIII. Why A Revolutionary Youth Movement-

In terms of the above analysis, most young people in the US are part of the working class. Although not yet employed, young people whose parents sell their labor power for wages, and more important who themselves expect to do the same in the future—or go into the army or be unemployed—are undeniably members of the working class. Most kids are well aware of what class they are in, even though they may not be very scientific about it. So our analysis assumes from the beginning that youth struggles are, by and large, working-class struggles. But why the focus now on the struggles of working-class youth rather than on the working class as a whole-

The potential for revolutionary consciousness does not always correspond to ultimate class interest, particularly when imperialism is relatively prosperous and the movement is in an early stage. At this stage, we see working-class youth as those most open to a revolutionary movement which sides with the struggles of Third World people; the following is an attempt to explain a strategic focus on youth for SDS.

In general, young people have less stake in a society (no family, fewer debts, etc.), are more open to new ideas (they have not been brainwashed for so long or so well), and are therefore more able and willing to move in a revolutionary direction. Specifically in America, young people have grown up experiencing the crises in imperialism. They have grown up along with a developing black liberation movement, with the liberation of Cuba, the fights for independence in Africa and the war in Vietnam. Older people grew up during the fight against fascism, during the Cold War, the smashing of the trade unions, McCarthy, and a period during which real wages consistently rose—since 1965 disposable real income has decreased slightly, particularly in urban areas where inflation and increased taxation have bitten heavily into wages. This crisis in imperialism affects all parts of the society. America has had to militarize to protect and expand its empire; hence the high draft calls and the creation of a standing army of three and a half million, an army which still has been unable to win in Vietnam. Further, the huge defense expenditures—required for the defense of the empire and at the same time a way of making increasing profits for the defense industries—have gone hand in hand with the urban crisis around welfare, the hospitals, the schools, housing, air and water pollution. The State cannot provide the services it has been forced to assume responsibility for, and needs to increase taxes and to pay its growing debts while it cuts services and uses the pigs to repress protest. The private sector of the economy can’t provide jobs, particularly unskilled jobs. The expansion of the defense and education industries by the State since World War II is in part an attempt to pick up the slack, though the inability to provide decent wages and working conditions for “public” jobs is more and more a problem.

As imperialism struggles to hold together this decaying social fabric, it inevitably resorts to brute force and authoritarian ideology. People, especially young people, more and more find themselves in the iron grip of authoritarian institutions. Reaction against the pigs or teachers in the schools, welfare pigs or the army, is generalizable and extends beyond the particular repressive institution to the society and the State as a whole. The legitimacy of the State is called into question for the first time in at least 30 years, and the anti-authoritarianism which characterizes the youth rebellion turns into rejection of the State, a refusal to be socialized into American society. Kids used to try to beat the system from inside the army or from inside the schools; now they desert from the army and burn down the schools.

The crisis in imperialism has brought about a breakdown in bourgeois social forms, culture and ideology. The family falls apart, kids leave home, women begin to break out of traditional “female” and “mother” roles. There develops a “generation gap” and a “youth problem.” Our heroes are no longer struggling businessmen, and we also begin to reject the ideal career of the professional and look to Mao, Chef, the Panthers, the Third World, for our models, for motion. We reject the elitist, technocratic bullshit that tells us only experts can rule, and look instead to leadership from the people’s war of the Vietnamese. Chuck Berry, Elvis, the Temptations brought us closer to the “people’s culture” of Black America. The racist response to the civil rights movement revealed the depth of racism in America, as well as the impossibility of real change through American institutions. And the war against Vietnam is not “the heroic war against the Nazis”; it’s the big lie, with napalm burning through everything we had heard this country stood for. Kids begin to ask questions: Where is the Free World- And who do the pigs protect at home-

The breakdown in bourgeois culture and concomitant anti-authoritarianism is fed by the crisis in imperialism, but also in turn feeds that crisis, exacerbates it so that people no longer merely want the plastic ’50s restored, but glimpse an alternative (like inside the Columbia buildings) and begin to fight for it. We don’t want teachers to be more kindly cops; we want to smash cops, and build a new life.

The contradictions of decaying imperialism fall hardest on youth in four distinct areas—the schools, jobs, the draft and the army, and the pigs and the courts. (A) In jail-like schools, kids are fed a mish-mash of racist, male chauvinist, anti-working class, anti-communist lies while being channeled into job and career paths set up according to the priorities of monopoly capital. At the same time, the State is becoming increasingly incapable of providing enough money to keep the schools going at all. (B) Youth unemployment is three times average unemployment. As more jobs are threatened by automation or the collapse of specific industries, unions act to secure jobs for those already employed. New people in the labor market can’t find jobs, job stability is undermined (also because of increasing speed-up and more intolerable safety conditions) and people are less and less going to work in the same shop for 40 years. And, of course, when they do find jobs, young people get the worst ones and have the least seniority. (C) There are now two and a half million soldiers under thirty who are forced to police the world, kill and be killed in wars of imperialist domination. And (D) as a “youth problem” develops out of all this, the pigs and courts enforce curfews, set up pot busts, keep people off the streets, and repress any youth motion whatsoever.

In all of this, it is not that life in America is toughest for youth or that they are the most oppressed. Rather, it is that young people are hurt directly—and severely—by imperialism. And, in being less tightly tied to the system, they are more “pushed” to join the black liberation struggle against US imperialism. Among young people there is less of a material base for racism—they have no seniority, have not spent 20 years securing a skilled job (the white monopoly of which is increasingly challenged by the black liberation movement), and aren’t just about to pay off a 25-year mortgage on a house which is valuable because it’s located in a white neighborhood.

While these contradictions of imperialism fall hard on all youth, they fall hardest on the youth of the most oppressed (least privileged) sections of the working class. Clearly these youth have the greatest material base for struggle. They are the ones who most often get drafted, who get the worst jobs if they get any, who are most abused by the various institutions of social control, from the army to decaying schools, to the pigs and the courts. And their day-to-day existence indicates a potential for militancy and toughness. They are the people whom we can reach who at this stage are most ready to engage in militant revolutionary struggle.

The point of the revolutionary youth movement strategy is to move from a predominant student elite base to more oppressed (less privileged) working-class youth as a way of deepening and expanding the revolutionary youth movement—not of giving up what we have gained, not giving up our old car for a new Dodge. This is part of a strategy to reach the entire working class to engage in struggle against imperialism; moving from more privileged sections of white working-class youth to more oppressed sections to the entire working class as a whole, including importantly what has classically been called the industrial proletariat. But this should not be taken to mean that there is a magic moment, after we reach a certain percentage of the working class, when all of a sudden we become a working-class movement. We are already that if we put forward internationalist proletarian politics. We also don’t have to wait to become a revolutionary force. We must be a self-conscious revolutionary force from the beginning, not be a movement which takes issues to some mystical group—”THE PEOPLE”—who will make the revolution. We must be a revolutionary movement of people understanding the necessity to reach more people, all working people, as we make the revolution.

The above arguments make it clear that it is both important and possible to reach young people wherever they are—not only in the shops, but also in the schools, in the army and in the streets—so as to recruit them to fight on the side of the oppressed peoples of the world. Young people will be part of the International Liberation Army. The necessity to build this International Liberation Army in America leads to certain priorities in practice for the revolutionary youth movement which we should begin to apply this summer. …

IX. Imperialism Is The Issue

The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletariat of different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working-class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.”

—Communist Manifesto

How do we reach youth; what kinds of struggles do we build; how do we make a revolution- What we have tried to lay out so far is the political content of the consciousness which we want to extend and develop as a mass consciousness: the necessity to build our power as part of the whole international revolution to smash the state power of the imperialists and build socialism. Besides consciousness of this task, we must involve masses of people in accomplishing it. Yet we are faced with a situation in which almost all of the people whose interests are served by these goals, and who should be, or even are, sympathetic to revolution, neither understand the specific tasks involved in making a revolution nor participate in accomplishing them. On the whole, people don’t join revolutions just because revolutionaries tell them to. The oppression of the system affects people in particular ways, and the development of political consciousness and participation begins with particular problems, which turn into issues and struggles. We must transform people’s everyday problems, and the issues and struggles growing out of them, into revolutionary consciousness, active and conscious opposition to racism and imperialism.

This is directly counterposed to assuming that struggles around immediate issues will lead naturally over time to struggle against imperialism. It has been argued that since people’s oppression is due to imperialism and racism, then any struggle against immediate oppression is “objectively anti-imperialist,” and the development of the fight against imperialism is a succession of fights for reforms. This error is classical economism.

A variant of this argument admits that this position is often wrong, but suggests that since imperialism is collapsing at this time, fights for reforms become “objectively anti-imperialist.” At this stage of imperialism there obviously will be more and more struggles for the improvement of material conditions, but that is no guarantee of increasing internationalist proletarian consciousness.

On the one hand, if we, as revolutionaries, are capable of understanding the necessity to smash imperialism and build socialism, then the masses of people who we want to fight along with us are capable of that understanding. On the other hand, people are brainwashed and at present don’t understand it; if revolution is not raised at every opportunity, then how can we expect people to see it in their interests, or to undertake the burdens of revolution- We need to make it clear from the very beginning that we are about revolution. But if we are so careful to avoid the dangers of reformism, how do we relate to particular reform struggles- We have to develop some sense of how to relate each particular issue to the revolution.

In every case, our aim is to raise anti-imperialist and anti-racist consciousness and tie the struggles of working-class youth (and all working people) to the struggles of Third World people, rather than merely joining fights to improve material conditions, even though these fights are certainly justified. This is not to say that we don’t take immediate fights seriously, or fight hard in them, but that we are always up front with our politics, knowing that people in the course of struggle are open to a class line, ready to move beyond narrow self-interest.

It is in this sense that we point out that the particular issue is not the issue, is important insofar as it points to imperialism as an enemy that has to be destroyed. Imperialism is always the issue. Obviously, the issue cannot be a good illustration, or a powerful symbol, if it is not real to people, if it doesn’t relate to the concrete oppression that imperialism causes. People have to be (and are being) hurt in some material way to understand the evils of imperialism, but what we must stress is the systematic nature of oppression and the way in which a single manifestation of imperialism makes clear its fundamental nature. At Columbia it was not the gym, in particular, which was important in the struggle, but the way in which the gym represented, to the people of Harlem and Columbia, Columbia’s imperialist invasion of the black colony. Or at Berkeley, though people no doubt needed a park (as much, however, as many other things-), what made the struggle so important was that people, at all levels of militancy, consciously saw themselves attacking private property and the power of the State. And the Richmond Oil Strike was exciting because the militant fight for improvement of material conditions was part and parcel of an attack on international monopoly capital. The numbers and militancy of people mobilized for these struggles has consistently surprised the left, and pointed to the potential power of a class-conscious mass movement.

The masses will fight for socialism when they understand that reform fights, fights for improvement of material conditions, cannot be won under imperialism. With this understanding, revolutionaries should never put forth a line which fosters the illusion that imperialism will grant significant reforms. We must engage in struggles forthrightly as revolutionaries, so that it will be clear to anyone we help to win gains that the revolution rather than imperialism is responsible for them. This is one of the strengths of the Black Panther Party Breakfast for Children Program. It is “socialism in practice” by revolutionaries with the “practice” of armed self-defense and a “line” which stresses the necessity of overthrowing imperialism and seizing state power. Probably the American Friends Service Committee serves more children breakfast, but it is the symbolic value of the program in demonstrating what socialism will do for people which makes the Black Panther Program worthwhile.

What does it mean to organize around racism and imperialism in specific struggles- In the high schools (and colleges) at this time, it means putting forth a mass line to close down the schools, rather than to reform them, so that they can serve the people. The reason for this line is not that under capitalism the schools cannot serve the people, and therefore it is silly or illusory to demand that. Rather, it is that kids are ready for the full scope of militant struggle, and already demonstrate a consciousness of imperialism, such that struggles for a people-serving school would not raise the level of their struggle to its highest possible point. Thus, to tell a kid in New York that imperialism tracks him and thereby oppresses him is often small potatoes compared to his consciousness that imperialism oppresses him by jailing him, pigs and all, and the only thing to do is break out and tear up the jail. And even where high school kids are not yet engaged in such sharp struggle, it is crucial not to build consciousness only around specific issues such as tracking or ROTC or racist teachers, but to use these issues to build toward the general consciousness that the schools should be shut down. It may be important to present a conception of what schools should or could be like (this would include the abolition of the distinction between mental and physical work), but not offer this total conception as really possible to fight for in any way but through revolution.

A mass line to close down the schools or colleges does not contradict demands for open admissions to college or any other good reform demand. Agitational demands for impossible, but reasonable, reforms are a good way to make a revolutionary point. The demand for open admissions by asserting the alternative to the present (school) system exposes its fundamental nature—that it is racist, class-based, and closed—pointing to the only possible solution to the present situation: “Shut it down!” The impossibility of real open admissions—all black and brown people admitted, no flunk-out, full scholarship, under present conditions—is the best reason (that the schools show no possibility for real reform) to shut the schools down. We should not throw away the pieces of victories we gain from these struggles, for any kind of more open admissions means that the school is closer to closing down (it costs the schools more, there are more militant blacks and browns making more and more fundamental demands on the schools, and so on). Thus our line in the schools, in terms of pushing any good reforms, should be, Open them up and shut them down!”

The spread of black caucuses in the shops and other workplaces throughout the country is an extension of the black liberation struggle. These groups have raised and will continue to raise anti-racist issues to white workers in a sharper fashion than any whites ever have or could raise them. Blacks leading struggles against racism made the issue unavoidable, as the black student movement leadership did for white students. At the same time these black groups have led fights which traditional trade-union leaders have consistently refused to lead—fights against speed-up and for safety (issues which have become considerably more serious in the last few years), forcing white workers, particularly the more oppressed, to choose in another way between allegiance to the white mother country and black leadership. As white mother country radicals we should try to be in shops, hospitals, and companies where there are black caucuses, perhaps organizing solidarity groups, but at any rate pushing the importance of the black liberation struggle to whites, handing out Free Huey literature, bringing guys out to Panther rallies, and so on. Just one white guy could play a crucial role in countering UAW counter-insurgency.

We also need to relate to workplaces where there is no black motion but where there are still many young white workers. In the shops the crisis in imperialism has come down around speed-up, safety, and wage squeeze—due to higher taxes and increased inflation, with the possibility of wage-price controls being instituted.

We must relate this exploitation back to imperialism. The best way to do this is probably not caucuses in the shops, but to take guys to citywide demonstrations, Newsreels, even the latest administration building, to make the Movement concrete to them and involve them in it. Further, we can effect consciousness and pick up people through agitational work at plants, train stops, etc., selling Movements, handing out leaflets about the war, the Panthers, the companies’ holdings overseas or relations to defense industry, etc.

After the Richmond strike, people leafleted about demonstrations in support of the Curaçao Oil workers, Free Huey May Day, and People’s Park.

SDS has not dealt in any adequate way with the women question; the resolution passed at Ann Arbor did not lead to much practice, nor has the need to fight male supremacy been given any programmatic direction within the RYM. As a result, we have a very limited understanding of the tie-up between imperialism and the women question, although we know that since World War II the differential between men’s and women’s wages has increased, and guess that the breakdown of the family is crucial to the woman question. How do we organize women against racism and imperialism without submerging the principled revolutionary question of women’s liberation- We have no real answer, but we recognize the real reactionary danger of women’s groups that are not self-consciously revolutionary and anti-imperialist.

To become more relevant to the growing women’s movement, SDS women should begin to see as a primary responsibility the self-conscious organizing of women. We will not be able to organize women unless we speak directly to their own oppression. This will become more and more critical as we work with more oppressed women. Women who are working and women who have families face male supremacy continuously in their day-to-day lives; that will have to be the starting point in their politicization. Women will never be able to undertake a full revolutionary role unless they break out of their woman’s role. So a crucial task for revolutionaries is the creation of forms of organization in which women will be able to take on new and independent roles. Women’s self-defense groups will be a step toward these organizational forms, as an effort to overcome women’s isolation and build revolutionary self-reliance.

The cultural revolt of women against their “role” in imperialism (which is just beginning to happen in a mass way) should have the same sort of revolutionary potential that the RYM claimed for “youth culture.” The role of the “wife-mother” is reactionary in most modern societies, and the disintegration of that role under imperialism should make women more sympathetic to revolution.

In all of our work we should try to formulate demands that not only reach out to more oppressed women, but ones which tie us to other ongoing struggles, in the way that a daycare center at U of C [University of Chicago] enabled us to tie the women’s liberation struggle to the Black Liberation struggle.

There must be a strong revolutionary women’s movement, for without one it will be impossible for women’s liberation to be an important part of the revolution. Revolutionaries must be made to understand the full scope of women’s oppression, and the necessity to smash male supremacy.

X. Neighborhood-Based Citywide Youth Movement

One way to make clear the nature of the system and our tasks working off of separate struggles is to tie them together with each other: to show that we’re one “multi-issue” movement, not an alliance of high school and college students, or students and GIs, or youth and workers, or students and the black community. The way to do this is to build organic regional or sub-regional and citywide movements, by regularly bringing people in one institution or area to fights going on on other fronts.

This works on two levels. Within a neighborhood, by bringing kids to different fights and relating these fights to each other—high school stuff, colleges, housing, welfare, shops—we begin to build one neighborhood-based multi-issue movement off of them. Besides actions and demonstrations, we also pull different people together in day-to-day film showings, rallies, for speakers and study groups, etc. On a second level, we combine neighborhood “bases” into a citywide or region-wide movement by doing the same kind of thing; concentrating our forces at whatever important struggles are going on and building more ongoing interrelationships off of that.

The importance of specifically neighborhood-based organizing is illustrated by our greatest failing in RYM practice so far—high school organizing. In most cities we don’t know the kids who have been tearing up and burning down the schools. Our approach has been elitist, relating to often baseless citywide groups by bringing them our line, or picking up kids with a false understanding of “politics” rather than those whose practice demonstrates their concrete anti-imperialist consciousness that schools are prisons. We’ve been unwilling to work continuously with high school kids as we did in building up college chapters. We will only reach the high school kids who are in motion by being in the schoolyards, hangouts and on the streets on an everyday basis. From a neighborhood base, high school kids could be effectively tied in to struggles around other institutions and issues, and to the anti-imperialist movement as a whole.

We will try to involve neighborhood kids who aren’t in high schools too; take them to anti-war or anti-racism fights, stuff in the schools, etc.; and at the same time reach out more broadly through newspapers, films, storefronts. Activists and cadres who are recruited in this work will help expand and deepen the Movement in new neighborhoods and high schools. Mostly we will still be tied in to the college-based movement in the same area, be influencing its direction away from campus-oriented provincialism, be recruiting high school kids into it where it is real enough and be recruiting organizers out of it. In its most developed form, this neighborhood-based movement would be a kind of sub-region. In places where the Movement wasn’t so strong, this would be an important form for being close to kids in a day-to-day way and yet be relating heavily to a lot of issues and political fronts which the same kids are involved with.

The second level is combining these neighborhoods into citywide and regional movements. This would mean doing the same thing—bringing people to other fights going on—only on a larger scale, relating to various blow-ups and regional mobilizations. An example is how a lot of people from different places went to San Francisco State, the Richmond Oil Strike, and now Berkeley. The existence of this kind of cross-motion makes ongoing organizing in other places go faster and stronger, first by creating a pervasive politicization, and second by relating everything to the most militant and advanced struggles going on so that they influence and set the pace for a lot more people. Further, cities are a basic unit of organization of the whole society in a way that neighborhoods aren’t. For example, one front where we should be doing stuff is the courts; they are mostly organized citywide, not by smaller areas. The same for the city government itself. Schools where kids go are in different neighborhoods from where they live, especially colleges; the same for hospitals people go to, and where they work. As a practical question of staying with people we pick up, the need for a citywide or area-wide kind of orientation is already felt in our movement.

Another failure of this year was making clear what the RYM meant for chapter members and students who weren’t organizers about to leave their campus for a community college, high school, GI organizing, shops or neighborhoods. One thing it means for them is relating heavily to off-campus activities and struggles, as part of the citywide motion. Not leaving the campus movement like people did for ERAP [Education Research Action Project] stuff; rather, people still organized on the campus in off-campus struggles, the way they have in the past for national actions. Like the national actions, the citywide ones will build the on-campus movement, not compete with it.

Because the Movement will be defining itself in relation to many issues and groups, not just schools (and the war and racism as they hit at the schools), it will create a political context that non-students can relate to better, and be more useful to organizing among high school students, neighborhood kids, the mass of people. In the process, it will change the consciousness of the students too; if the issues are right and the Movement fights them, people will develop a commitment to the struggle as a whole, and an understanding of the need to be revolutionaries rather than a “student movement.” Building a revolutionary youth movement will depend on organizing in a lot of places where we haven’t been, and just tying the student movement to other issues and struggles isn’t a substitute for that. But given our limited resources we must also lead the on-campus motion into a RYM direction, and we can make great gains toward citywide youth movements by doing it.

Three principles underlie this multi-issue, “cross-institutional” movement, on the neighborhood and citywide levels, as to why it creates greater revolutionary consciousness and active participation in the revolution:

(1) Mixing different issues, struggles and groups demonstrates our analysis to people in a material way. We claim there is one system and so all these different problems have the same solution, revolution. If they are the same struggle in the end, we should make that clear from the beginning. On this basis we must aggressively smash the notion that there can be outside agitators on a question pertaining to the imperialists.

(2) “Relating to Motion”: the struggle activity, the action, of the Movement demonstrates our existence and strength to people in a material way. Seeing it happen, people give it more weight in their thinking. For the participants, involvement in struggle is the best education about the Movement, the enemy and the class struggle. In a neighborhood or whole city the existence of some struggle is a catalyst for other struggles—it pushes people to see the Movement as more important and urgent, and as an example and precedent makes it easier for them to follow. If the participants in a struggle are based in different institutions or parts of the city, these effects are multiplied. Varied participation helps the Movement be seen as political (wholly subversive) rather than as separate grievance fights. As people in one section of the Movement fight beside and identify closer with other sections, the mutual catalytic effect of their struggles will be greater.

(3) We must build a Movement oriented toward power. Revolution is a power struggle, and we must develop that understanding among people from the beginning. Pooling our resources area-wide and citywide really does increase our power in particular fights, as-well as push a mutual-aid-in-struggle consciousness.

XI. The RYM And The Pigs

A major focus in our neighborhood and citywide work is the pigs, because they tie together the various struggles around the State as the enemy, and thus point to the need for a Movement oriented toward power to defeat it.

The pigs are the capitalist state, and as such define the limits of all political struggles; to the extent that a revolutionary struggle shows signs of success, they come in and mark the point it can’t go beyond. In the early stages of struggle, the ruling class lets parents come down on high school kids, or jocks attack college chapters. When the struggle escalates the pigs come in; at Columbia, the left was afraid its struggle would be co-opted to anti-police brutality, cops off campus, and said pigs weren’t the issue. But pigs really are the issue and people will understand this, one way or another. They can have a liberal understanding that pigs are sweaty working-class barbarians who over-react and commit “police brutality” and so shouldn’t be on campus. Or they can understand pigs as the repressive imperialist State doing its job. Our job is not to avoid the issue of the pigs as “diverting” from anti-imperialist struggle, but to emphasize that they are our real enemy if we fight that struggle to win.

Even when there is no organized political struggle, the pigs come down on people in everyday life in enforcing capitalist property relations, bourgeois laws and bourgeois morality; they guard stores and factories and the rich and enforce credit and rent against the poor. The overwhelming majority of arrests in America are for crimes against property. The pigs will be coming down on the kids we’re working with in the schools, on the streets, around dope; we should focus on them, point them out all the time, like the Panthers do. We should relate the daily oppression by the pig to their role in political repression, and develop a class understanding of political power and armed force among the kids we’re with.

As we develop a base these two aspects of the pig role increasingly come together. In the schools, pig is part of daily oppression—keeping order in halls and lunch rooms, controlling smoking—while at the same time pigs prevent kids from handing out leaflets, and bust “outside agitators.” The presence of youth, or youth with long hair, becomes defined as organized political struggle and the pigs react to it as such. More and more everyday activity is politically threatening, so pigs are suddenly more in evidence; this in turn generates political organization and opposition, and so on. Our task will be to catalyze this development, pushing out the conflict with the pig so as to define every struggle—schools (pigs out, pig institutes out), welfare (invading pig-protected office), the streets (curfew and turf fights)—as a struggle against the needs of capitalism and the force of the State.

Pigs don’t represent State power as an abstract principle; they are a power that we will have to overcome in the course of struggle or become irrelevant, revisionist, or dead. We must prepare concretely to meet their power because our job is to defeat the pigs and the army, and organize on that basis. Our beginnings should stress self-defense—building defense groups around karate classes, learning how to move on the street and around the neighborhood, medical training, popularizing and moving toward (according to necessity) armed self-defense, all the time honoring and putting forth the principle that “political power comes out of the barrel of a gun.” These self-defense groups would initiate pig surveillance patrols, visits to the pig station and courts when someone is busted, etc.

Obviously the issues around the pig will not come down by neighborhood alone; it will take at least citywide groups able to coordinate activities against a unified enemy—in the early stages, for legal and bail resources and turning people out for demonstrations, adding the power of the citywide movement to what may be initially only a tenuous base in a neighborhood. Struggles in one part of the city will not only provide lessons for but [will] materially aid similar motion in the rest of it.

Thus the pigs are ultimately the glue—the necessity—that holds the neighborhood-based and citywide movement together; all of our concrete needs lead to pushing the pigs to the fore as a political focus:

(1) making institutionally oriented reform struggles deal with State power, by pushing our struggle till either winning or getting pigged;

(2) using the citywide inter-relation of fights to raise the level of struggle and further large-scale anti-pig movement-power consciousness;

(3) developing spontaneous anti-pig consciousness in our neighborhoods to an understanding of imperialism, class struggle and the State;

(4) and using the citywide movement as a platform for reinforcing and extending this politicization work, like by talking about getting together a citywide neighborhood-based mutual aid anti-pig self-defense network.

All of this can be done through citywide agitation and propaganda and picking certain issues—to have as the central regional focus for the whole Movement.

XII. Repression And Revolution

As institutional fights and anti-pig self-defense off of them intensify, so will the ruling class’s repression. Their escalation of repression will inevitably continue according to how threatening the Movement is to their power. Our task is not to avoid or end repression; that can always be done by pulling back, so we’re not dangerous enough to require crushing. Sometimes it is correct to do that as a tactical retreat, to survive to fight again.

To defeat repression, however, is not to stop it but to go on building the Movement to be more dangerous to them; in which case, defeated at one level, repression will escalate even more. To succeed in defending the Movement, and not just ourselves at its expense, we will have to successively meet and overcome these greater and greater levels of repression.

To be winning will thus necessarily, as imperialism’s lesser efforts fail, bring about a phase of all-out military repression. To survive and grow in the face of that will require more than a larger base of supporters; it will require the invincible strength of a mass base at a high level of active participation and consciousness, and can only come from mobilizing the self-conscious creativity, will and determination of the people.

Each new escalation of the struggle in response to new levels of repression, each protracted struggle around self-defense which becomes a material fighting force, is part of the international strategy of solidarity with Vietnam and the blacks, through opening up other fronts. They are anti-war, anti-imperialist and pro-black liberation. If they involve fighting the enemy, then these struggles are part of the revolution.

Therefore, clearly the organization and active, conscious, participating mass base needed to survive repression are also the same needed for winning the revolution. The Revolutionary Youth Movement speaks to the need for this kind of active mass-based Movement by tying citywide motion back to community youth bases, because this brings us close enough to kids in their day-to-day lives to organize their “maximum active participation” around enough different kinds of fights to push the “highest level of consciousness” about imperialism, the black vanguard, the State and the need for armed struggle.

III. The Need For A Revolutionary Party

The RYM must also lead to the effective organization needed to survive and to create another battlefield of the revolution. A revolution is a war; when the Movement in this country can defend itself militarily against total repression it will be part of the revolutionary war.

This will require a cadre organization, effective secrecy, self-reliance among the cadres, and an integrated relationship with the active mass-based Movement. To win a war with an enemy as highly organized and centralized as the imperialists will require a (clandestine) organization of revolutionaries, having also a unified “general staff”; that is, combined at some point with discipline under one centralized leadership. Because war is political, political tasks—the international communist revolution—must guide it. Therefore the centralized organization of revolutionaries must be a political organization as well as military, what is generally called a “Marxist-Leninist” party.

How will we accomplish the building of this kind of organization- It is clear that we couldn’t somehow form such a party at this time, because the conditions for it do not exist in this country outside the Black nation. What are these conditions-

One is that to have a unified centralized organization it is necessary to have a common revolutionary theory which explains, at least generally, the nature of our revolutionary tasks and how to accomplish them. It must be a set of ideas which have been tested and developed in the practice of resolving the important contradictions in our work.

A second condition is the existence of revolutionary leadership tested in practice. To have a centralized party under illegal and repressive conditions requires a centralized leadership, specific individuals with the understanding and the ability to unify and guide the Movement in the face of new problems and be right most of the time.

Thirdly, and most important, there must be the same revolutionary mass base mentioned earlier, or (better) revolutionary mass movement. It is clear that without this there can’t be the practical experience to know whether or not a theory, or a leader, is any good at all. Without practical revolutionary activity on a mass scale the party could not test and develop new ideas and draw conclusions with enough surety behind them to consistently base its survival on them. Especially, no revolutionary party could possibly survive Without relying on the active support and participation of masses of people.

These conditions for the development of a revolutionary party in this country are the main “conditions” for winning. There are two kinds of tasks for us.

One is the organization of revolutionary collectives within the Movement. Our theory must come from practice, but it can’t be developed in isolation. Only a collective pooling of our experiences can develop a thorough understanding of the complex conditions in this country. In the same way, only our collective efforts toward a common plan can adequately test the ideas we develop. The development of revolutionary Marxist-Leninist-Maoist collective formations which undertake this concrete evaluation and application of the lessons of our work is not just the task of specialists or leaders, but the responsibility of every revolutionary. Just as a collective is necessary to sum up experiences and apply them locally, equally the collective interrelationship of groups all over the country is necessary to get an accurate view of the whole movement and to apply that in the whole country. Over time, those collectives which prove themselves in practice to have the correct understanding (by the results they get) will contribute toward the creation of a unified revolutionary party.

The most important task for us toward making the revolution, and the work our collectives should engage in, is the creation of a mass revolutionary movement, without which a clandestine revolutionary party will be impossible. A revolutionary mass movement is different from the traditional revisionist mass base of “sympathizers.” Rather it is akin to the Red Guard in China, based on the full participation and involvement of masses of people in the practice of making revolution; a movement with a full willingness to participate in the violent and illegal struggle. It is a movement diametrically opposed to the elitist idea that only leaders are smart enough or interested enough to accept full revolutionary conclusions. It is a movement built on the basis of faith in the masses of people.

The task of collectives is to create this kind of movement. (The party is not a substitute for it. and in fact is totally dependent on it.) This will be done at this stage principally among youth, through implementing the Revolutionary Youth Movement strategy discussed in this paper. It is practice at this, and not political “teachings” in the abstract, which will determine the relevance of the political collectives which are formed.

The strategy of the RYM for developing an active mass base, tying the citywide fights to community and citywide anti-pig movement, and for building a party eventually out of this motion, fits with the world strategy for winning the revolution, builds a movement oriented toward power, and will become one division of the International Liberation Army, while its battlefields are added to the many Vietnams which will dismember and dispose of US imperialism. Long Live the Victory of People’s War!

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94 Responses to Weatherman Manifesto

  1. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Ah, but now we have a staged revolution, one of mobs incited not to overthrow the established regime, but to keep it in power.

    Paid and organized by their masters, to keep their fellows from even peacefully obtaining changes that would be needed to even so much as keep the “revolutionaries” alive.

    And the fake revolutionaries seek to bolster their “revolution” by tearing down people who stood against the most horrendous military dictatorship, here, in our own country. Apparently they weren’t meant to survive. They call young men and women who tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to stem or stymie the flow of weapons and soldiers being sent to other countries, to fight against the poor of those countries… by the names “traitors” and “terrorists”.

    So they have a “revolution” sponsored by the supposedly ousted and former regime. Abetted by Military and Police and Judicial officials who were appointed by the ousted regime.

    As to, will they learn in time? No. They’ll rush madly into war against their families, their homes, their own livelihood. For the cause of Remaining Loyal Slaves. When they do travel to the poorer corners of the earth, and see the struggle of life among the people there, they blame the people rather than their own economic policies. And come back and lecture the people here about how the People in those countries revolted against the Corporations and their “new” corporate-appointed masters are equally as repressive as the “old” corporate-appointed masters.

    They say that people in Socialist countries, in the midst of revolutions against THEIR Mastery, should be faulted for the excesses of the troops sent by the Corporate Masters to keep the revolution from succeeding. Either they don’t see that the same American Army which protects them on their “go to the land of the poor and despise them to their faces” tours is also fighting to suppress the people, and to drive those who dared rebel back into the Slave Pens, and causes the poverty and misery and death they wish to blame on the “rebels” in whatever country.

    They’re shocked and amazed that the people are in constant grinding poverty largely because they’re in a constant grinding war. One foisted on them.

    I don’t believe that people choose revolution. Revolution truly starts when the people are pressed into it. The Slave-Masters breed the Slave-rebellions. By trying to reduce humans to the level of Slavery in the first place. A “rabble rouser” preaching against the oppressor and the sword at their throat, has very little effect, compared to the very real sword at the throat of the people.

    The Scions of Wealth or their paid minions can say all they wish that Revolution doesn’t bring a true redistribution of Wealth and Prosperity to the people… but they neglect to mention that neither does surrender to the will of the masters.

    The sword MIGHT not bring liberty, but accepting a collar and leash NEVER will.

    And even the comparatively more wealthy laborers here, have as tenuous a hold on tomorrow as the laborers in other countries.
    Teach them to see that. Teach them the truth, that their Masters will force them into chains at a moments notice to protect the wealth of The Masters. And that groveling to the Masters, and fighting the battles that the Masters are afraid to fight for themselves, will not make their leash disappear, nor their collar, and the Master will always ALWAYS have the power to tighten that leash anew.

    Maybe they can learn that before it’s too late, and before there is no solution other than violence. I’m willing to give it a try.

    The Masters and their Fake Revolutionary Puppets will fight back. Have fought back.

    The Weathermen, for their part, COULD have done major acts of violence in America and chose not to. Not for fear of harming their Masters or being harmed by them. But for a genuine concern for their fellow Americans. And a desire not to kill their friends along with their foes.

    The Right Wing NRA Republican Capitalist First Church of Lying Support the War have killed more Americans every year than the worst annual casualty rate for American forces in VietNam.

    Yesterday, another fool opened fire on an office and warehouse park. Killing mostly workers.

    Maybe you could teach them not to kill their fellow workers. I haven’t.

    Hector, you said a lot of things sideways. But what you did say directly, has a flaw.

    It doesn’t matter what the skin color is of the Killers. White people have killed as many people as any “race”. Doesn’t make them stronger or weaker to have that statistic. Certainly doesn’t make them better.

    I hope tomorrow finds you well.

    We might not ever make the world a workers paradise.
    But we might, from time to time and place to place, sometimes make corners of it to not be a Workers Corporate Hell.

  2. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    If it wasn’t for power and the Capitalist Military Industrial complex you would not have the freedom to spew your impractical idealistic dogma on this web site.If you are so empathetic to the world’s poor and disenfranchised why don’t you join them toiling in the rice paddies or have you designated yourself as self anointed Master Redresser of the worlds ills and are too good to work the fields because you fancy yourself intellectually superior to them and you fancy them better served by your lofty post as a boorish oaf posing as a pseudo intellectual and pseudo revolutionary.

  3. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Hey, the corporate masters are bringing the slavery here, full force, in the name of freedom. While and at the same time exporting that “freedom” to those few countries not under their thumb.

    The Weathermen refused to be soldiers in the global war on Everybody Else, and took the added step of destroying a few facilities in key places that were enabling the Empire.

    Note: Facilities, not targeting people.
    See, a whole lot of Americans and more every day are refusing to be “The Empire” or the plantation slaves or the Military Enforcement slaves of the empire, and are refusing, once again, to join the army, travel to exotic places, meet interesting people, and kill them.

    If people realize that they can derail the Empire at its heart, in its own nest, and actually DO such things, then groovy. If the other people of the world, who don’t have the opportunity to resist American Imperialism IN America, benefit from it, and they will, then groovier.

    We CAN tell when we’re making a difference, when our actions here stymie the abilities of the Army to take away more of the freedoms and the very lifeblood of the other nations, the other PEOPLE of the world, because of their extremist Police State activities.

    To take a lesson from one of the more important Revolutions in America, use a phrase from that time… The House Negro isn’t the one who gets the whip…

    The privileges of what? Free to have my legs not work anymore, because one of the minor Overseers of the American Plantation was a straight up Pendejo and decided to save a little bit of money by not buying a second ladder, and taking the ladder to a second job site, and had us walking up and down a conveyor belt to get on and off the roof?

    Free to have worked all my adult life to that point sinking further down because the Rich felt that Minimum Wage, which wasn’t enough to even pay my basic bills, is “overpaying” us?

    When the Big Boss, Halliburton Inc, also refused to pay so much as my medical bills, so that I could have saved the functioning of my feet, my ability to so much as WALK without pain, I was told that all that time I was making less than it takes to survive it was MY responsibility to have insurance. That in a state which has a “Right To Work” law, and by consequence, NO right to refuse any labor the Big Boss demands of us at a rate of pay THEY decide, I “could have simply refused to work” for Halliburton.

    Meanwhile telling me and everybody else who works to put money into THEIR pockets that they had a right and WE have a responsibility to take that same corporate model to other countries who are already, as you put it, kept in grinding poverty by that corporate model, and fight for THEIR Corporate “right” to take even MORE from the people, Here, and the people, There?

    Yeah, there’s going to be fighting in the streets in America. The corporate Fake Revolution “tea party” are going to be the ones to fire the first rounds. Actually already have.

    Their corporations and their government, and the riches of Their Masters give me or anybody else no Freedoms, only the “freedom” to conform. Fuck that shit.

    And they send people not only to complain about people refusing to do their bidding, as you put it “After all we’ve done for you” but in many cases arrest us and or otherwise assault us. Commit acts of violence to suppress Free Speech an all in the Name of free speech.

    That’s not a complaint, that’s a straight-up statement that their envoys, their propagandists who tell us all the time that they “gave us the freedom to talk back” are fucking liars.

    What about recognizing and throwing that fact back in the faces of the Right Wing heavily armed thugs is “pseudo-intellectual” or “pseudo-revolutionary”?

    Now they’re marching in the streets saying that having a Health Care system that actually might work would be “Tyranny” and “communist revolutionary”. Their words, not mine.

    So that when we get sick, as my wife did, or injured, as I did, our only option is to curl up and DIE. As my wife did.
    If we refuse that option we’re branded as “Terrorists”.
    Again, Fuck that shit.

    The Big Boss gets to use our labor to enrich ITS own self and then not even pay us so much as health care? Third world countries who have had Revolutions, like Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela, have at least basic health care. Yet we’re supposed to send our sons and our daughters over to THEIR countries, and put the collar and leash back on them, by force.

    Are the scions of the Rich doing their own fighting? Hell to the Fuck no. The Bush twins, for instance, spent their Corporate Paid college years getting drunk, just like Daddy did, and going around telling other people their age what a wonderful career it is to join the God-Damned (literally) Military and go to other countries and force them to comply with the orders of their Empire. You want to complain about pampered?

    Their faction of the fake political choices of the Empire put up nothing but Pampered Effete elitist bullshit artists like Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, their own Bush brothers, encouraged by O’Reilly, Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, and before them John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, the scions of Privilege pretending to be Working Class. And all of them, to a so-called “man” Draft Dodgers who wouldn’t put the finger to the trigger or the boot to the semi-conquered foreign ground from which they steal their riches.

    But the Weathermen who risked imprisonment and death to resist that system are the “fakes”. Those who went to the Wars and came back with pieces missing, like Ron Kovic and Max Cleland, and were treated as heroes, until they started questioning, loudly, the dogma of the Big Boss, that it was to give them and us and the people of VietNam “Freedom, they were fakes too, right? According to the same people who come to us and rail on the Weathermen that would be so. They say the same for anybody who opposes any manifestation of the Empire, from labor unions to the Freedom Marchers who fought and still fight for racial equality.

    Fuck that shit, too.

    Those of us who managed through the rapidly disappearing Public Education system to learn to read and write and express the RIGHTFUL anger at this, are called “pseudo-Intellectuals” and those with store-bought educations like Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck and O’Reilly and Malkin are hailed as being “working class heroes” for spreading the Manure of the Boss Man. Paid more in a year than a REAL worker even in the best trade-union jobs in America would make in a lifetime. If we call them liars we’re called “elitists” and your favorite Right Wing Catch Phrase “pseudo-intellectuals”.

    I suppose that’s why the Right Wing opposes Public Education, maybe you could elaborate on that, since you make yourself to be an expert on Left and Right and “elitists” and Pseudo-intellectuals.

    Fuck that shit too. Now what? Will you complain that such language is too coarse for your delicate sensibilities? Many of the Right Wing do.

    But if I refrain from “vulgarity” I’m condemned by the same Self-Anointed Judges of All That is Revolution for being “too politically correct” and a Pseudo-intellectual.

    Which will it be, Oh Mighty Self-anointed Judges Of Who Is Or Is Not Entitled To Take A Stand?

    Judge me for taking a stand and literally risking my life and my freedom. What a Crock of Shit.

  4. So, which set or subset of the Right Wing Lies are we to believe? The ones that say we’re NOT effective in damaging the schemes of the Empire, or the ones that we’re Dangerous Terrorists out to kill and maim everybody connected to the Empire?

    Which is it, Comrades?

  5. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    I saw a recent picture of the leftover radical crusaders of the ’60’s and ’70’s all of whom where sporting rather expanded waistlines.Didn’t look like any of them experienced too much adversity in their courageous pursuit of World Liberation.It appears “The Revolution” has been real good to them.

  6. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    So, the way I see it, slavery with privileges is still slavery. And can be reduced to Slavery WITHOUT privileges at any time.

    Calling a longer leash and a more comfortable slave quarters doesn’t quite take that sting away. Now, the last official revolution in America was a bunch of Rich White guys not wanting to pay taxes. Hardly the same thing as being in Wage Slavery. Although, they DID have one important point… They were not wanting to live under a hereditary dictatorship.

    Nowadays it’s considered “impolite” in their faux Revolution TeaBag Party to mention the British “Angle”<<–Bad Joke.
    Mostly because the British are their allies in exporting Corporate Slavery to other nations.

    Now, some in the "third world" corporate Green Zones like Panama are pulling off their leashes and cutting the collars.

    The Puppet Banana Republic of Panama tried to bust up a simple labor dispute the old fashioned way. Send in military and police storm-troopers.

    Didn't quite work. See, that's revolution born of oppression. Nobody taught the people to resent being treated as slaves. They have it within them. There will be more, of course.

    Right now, and for any possible future, the United States Military has cut its own throat. With a blatant declaration of Empire they've destroyed the nation of the United States.

    What other empire could have destroyed America? None. It had to be done from within. Just as the Weathermen predicted 40 years ago. They didn't have to destroy the Empire, the Empire destroys itself.

    Happened many times before, and the United States never did have the Moral Superiority the fake historians pine for once more. Wasn't started in purity of motives.

    So what else did anybody expect?
    Oh, that's right, they expected they would be able to seize and hold all the power and money in the world through the Military Might based on the Working Class being used as Slave Soldiers.

    The "upper class" don't fight for their stolen wealth, nor do they encourage their kids to do so. If one of their kids DOES and gets killed they look on it as advanced eugenics. Weed out the Stupid rich kids, remove them from the breeding pool early.

    They surely have no conscience about using the scions of the "slaves" to fight for them. Even the "peasants" in the countries their minions conquer.

    Only, it's a negative return. They end up, over say, 234 years, paying more to seize the wealth than they accumulate in wealth.
    Bad Capital! Very Naughty!

    Meanwhile creating generation after generation of enemies for themselves. Now the poor, pathetic Rich Elitist Master Class have lost their advantage. Whatever shall they do?

    I would try, really I would, to give a rats ass about what the rich are going to do with their collapsed empire and the barbarians at the gates. But, you see, on the way to building and collapsing their empire they kicked OUR economy out from under us. Aren’t they just the sweetest most moral individuals?

    So those of us who have been disenfranchised, crippled up and impoverished by the Empire are left to rebuild what we can of a sustainable life. Not much “revolutionary” about that.

    Meanwhile we have mobs incited by the very Rich, disguised as “revolutionaries”. Some of them think it moral to leave the poorest citizen-slaves in the dirt dying. Some of them even Arm Themselves for the purpose of Killing Their Fellow citizens.

    Those would be the Right Wing “revolutionary” group the TeaBags. Their Propaganda leaders like Glenn Beck tell them that they are assured of victory, that all they have to do is display force and heavy armaments and the rest of us will surrender to them and apologize for ever opposing them.

    Seems they like the idea of fighting people they consider helpless, picking a fight with only those they’re sure they can beat.
    Those on the Far Right who actually oppose the war oppose it on the grounds that it won’t be the cakewalk promised by their leaders. Not on the grounds that it’s immoral and impossible to maintain an Empire. Just that they can’t win. And they want to pick another fight they think they CAN win.

  7. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    They thought they’d hold Panama forever in fief as a Vassal State too. Just, you know, sayin’.

  8. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    The residual leftover crusaders of ,dig this-“World Revolution” have their own scripted puppet leaders(now well fed) in the land of Imperialistic Capitalism that wish to foist their self advancing dogma on the people.The cowardly dogs of “the Peoples Revolution” now grown fat on the profits of sinecure and books want to incite the “masses” to march and do the dirty work for them.These blotopods think that by virtue of them being seasoned revoultionaries they should not get their hands soiled by the struggle for liberation.By the way it looks like our intrepid revolutionary warrior Brother Bonah hasn’t been missing too many revolutionary meals himself.

  9. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    This web site has got to be a front for somebody or some organization.The rhetoric and twaddle posted here is so predictably lame it has to be contrived or fabricated.

  10. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Yeah, the Empire is dead. Not just dying. It’s gone. All that’s left is being pissed away by the now-desperate Über-Klasse in pointless wars that probably even they know can’t possibly be won.

    Gone the way of Assyria, Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome.

    It might not be too late, you know, if the “rulers” made the decision to abandon the whole concept of running the world the way they see fit. But, they’ve had 234 years and didn’t even moderate their ambitions. Asking the Pigs to step back from the trough would be about pointless.

    One thing the Weather Underground did that has a lot of merit, blowing up property instead of people. Apparently the Big Boss “Übermenschen” Elitists have to spend more of their “hard earned” Blood Money that they got other people to shed the blood to acquire for them replacing buildings and vehicles than they do replacing people.

    In their eyes, we’re the most expendable “resource” they have.
    In the military you get a close look at that. Also workers that get maimed or killed on the job, either they or their families get such a look.
    But in the Army and Air Force, if you want a new roll of toilet paper, you have to bring the core of the old one. You want a new light bulb you have to bring the broken or burnt out one.
    Quartermasters Corps is called “bean counters” because of their meticulous cataloging of property.

    I was a medic, which, surprise, isn’t a Non-Combatant job. There is no “non Combat” job in the service. Even the Chaplains have the mission of keeping the Formerly Human weapons from thinking about the immorality of Murder. Medics are basically monkey-mechanics. Keep the Formerly Human “equipment” in working order the same way the airframe technicians and the Armorer and the Motor Pool keep the more overtly Mechanical equipment in order. Really a dehumanizing experience, and you know the biggest reason? Because in order for the Troops to be able to constantly kill other people, they have to look at first themselves, and THEN the “enemy” as Non-People.

    Militarism, worship of the god of Forces, (described thus as a character of the AntiChrist in the Bible, “forsaking the gods of his fathers and worshiping instead the god of forces”) kills the souls of the soldiers. The Militarists even go so far as to shrug off any such criticism by saying they HAVE to deeply indoctrinate (brainwash) the soldiers to instant obedience or “we can’t fight wars”.

    Well, Boo fuckin’ Hoo. We don’t NEED wars and in fact wars only drag us down, never build up a society. There isn’t a single war fought by the United States in the past 65 years that hasn’t been entered into voluntarily by the Government of the U.S.

    ALL of them, wars of CHOICE. Not necessity.
    Most of the techniques and policies outlined in the Manifesto were taken from United States Government publications.
    You could, if you’re of that mindset, go to any gun show or even some gun shops and pick up re-published manuals from the Special Forces, from the CIA, from their Army ancestor the OSS, British equivalents, French equivalents, even Russian, as in from the time of the Tsars.

    Manuals on Psychological Warfare (which is how I know the right-wing chumps who keep harping and harping aren’t really professionals, but somebody in their chain of command IS.) which is a polite way of saying “Propaganda”. Manuals on bombings, organizing resistance groups, manuals on how to write manuals.

    The Manifesto contains the training and organizing protocols for the resistance groups of World War 2, including the VietMinh “cong”. Resistance groups which were universally abandoned and re-branded as Terrorists as soon as they were no longer useful to the War Department.

    General Xiap, the one the right wingnuts keep claiming wrote that North VietNam was ready to surrender weeks before the USAF and USN Terrorist Bombing Campaign (against a civilian population, mostly, of a country against which we had never declared war, and who never declared war against the United States… 9/11 on a daily basis) in a book that was never written.

    It’s one of the Power-trip Fantasies that Warmongers love to cling to.
    What Xiap DID write were military manuals for his side, and that his tactics were largely written up by George Washington.
    The first president of the United States, yeah. THAT George Washington. But we’re not supposed to every say that the U.S. soldiers who occupy so many countries are in fact an Occupation Force. Just like the “redcoats” in America and the SchutzStaffel in Europe.

    Supposedly, that’s Propaganda, which the Army views as a hostile act. Because it’s a Hostile Act when THEY do it.

    Speaking of which, their Propaganda took a major-league Beat-Down with the Wikileaks publication of the truth the Militarists were hiding under a dense cloud of LIES.

    Some of the most Rabid of the right wing foaming at the mouth Hate Freaks want Bradley Manning to get the Death Penalty, either officially for Espionage or “unofficially” as soon as he’s in a Military Prison for life, and the Guards are the only official source of information on Inmate Deaths.

    Usually the PIGS call it “Jailhouse suicide” or they hire other inmates to murder the person. Not a Morally supportable or sustainable practice. But, it’s what they do. Aside from mocking people who point these facts out as being “pseudo intellectual”, which in my case doesn’t seem to be working very well.

    I just laugh my ass off at people who put down their victims in foreign lands as “backwards” or “savages” or “peasants” or whatever. “Sand-nigger” is one of the current favorites.

    gooks, Pedro, pissants, slopes, dinks, nips, krauts, yeah, there’s a list of them somewhere. Anything to dehumanize them.

    What amuses me is that somebody who worked until he no longer could, crippled by the so-called “superior” capitalist system, and was educated in the Public School system they not only despise but actively are dismantling in favor of “private academies” is somehow an “Elitist Snob and Pseudo-Intellectual”. What a crock of shit.

    You know what it sounds like?

    “Why do you object when we do it to YOU? Our Noble Superior System does it to billions of people worldwide!!”

    But apparently the only way it’s ever going to change for the better is if people don’t every do or say anything about it, just trust the Masters in the ÜberKlasse. Because they KNOW what’s best for for the rest of us. But WE are the “elitists”. Yeah, right.

  11. Avatar Brother Francis says:

    Well Brother Jonah there does at last seem to be a little change of tone in your response to one of my posts the most rational and erudite to date.

    Lets examine our recent exchange of posts. In one of your post had made some statement regarding, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown boasting i.e. they were aware that Saddam did not have WMDs, the IRA being the current Government in Ireland, that Scotland was on the verge of declaring independence from the UK, and that the Queen would soon have nothing to rule.

    I responded by giving you a very brief outline of the Queens power in relation the Governance of the UK i.e. she has none to speak of. I ask for clarification of the three points, which you had made as statement of facts. It was my belief that these statements were very far from the truth. You further asserted T Blair and G Brown were being investigated for war crimes, when asked I who was carrying this investigation you ignored the question.

    Your response was in most cases unrelated to the clarification I had sort, it was mocking and hysterical diatribe of abuse. You referred to me as supporter of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, Blair, Brown Bush, Cheney, Netanyahu, Scooter Libby, and Karl Rowe (last two I have never heard of) as bold liar and coward a contradiction terms if ever there was one.

    In further post I defended myself, stating unequivocally that none of those named by you did I offered support to, politically, furthermore I also stated unequivocally that offered them no support war in Iraq or Afghanistan. No matter how many times I stated my position you continued your hysterical diatribe of abuse. Your responses had all the hallmarks of paranoia, your outbursts are characterised the presence ordered but no well-ordered delusional thoughts and I don’t just mean in reference to my posts.

    You made two references to my mother, which can best be described a disgraceful, at worst foul mouthed especially of someone who wishes to be thought of as rational. More the reaction of a frustrated schoolboy to another who is physical weaker than yourself but with greater verbal authority.

    All your hysterical outburst have not effect on me, but signal to me and others readers that your mind is closed both to other peoples views, in that you see them as without legitimacy and what are commonly recognised as facts.

    There could only be three reasons for the reaction you display, you didn’t read my posts, you read them and ignored them or your responses were irrational. This led me to believe your were suffering from some form psychosis i.e. a severe disorders that involve disturbances of thinking, reduced contact with reality, loss of ability to function socially and bizarre behaviours. A conclusion that most readers would have drawn from your posts.

    Regarding you post of 03.08.10

    Regarding my perspective on Ireland, you jump to conclusions and assume my attitude, even though there is nothing in any of my posts that should make you jump in this direction. I stated in a previous post that I was not a White Anglo Saxon Protestant. I am in fact more Irish than you are since only one of my antecedents was not Irish, all educated under the auspice catholic church. Perhaps the difference between you and I is that I have not relied on the blarney you hear down the pub. You appear to have that romanticised view of Ireland peculiar to many Irish- Americans. The Irish- English on the other hand have a more practical view borne out by the day to day relationship, we our not seeking to burden ourselves with grudges, we that is the English and the Irish have made a new start. , I personally witness little or no animosity between the two nations either at a personal or Governmental level. The decisions taken about the current governance of Ireland were taken almost a hundred years. In essence it was an agreement between the Catholic, Protestants and the British Government of the time.

    You can read about the road to self determination of Ireland in a book by lord Longford can’t remember the title, lent my copy and never got it back.

    Sorry to be pedantic, my definition of the world Celt it refers to a member an ancient European people who settled Britain before the coming of the Romans, or of their descendents especially in Ireland, Wales, Cornwall and Scotland. If you want to refer specifically to a native of Ireland the word is Hibernian.

    Not Sure What you know about Brian Boru the last Great High King of Ireland. My knowledge of Brian Boru does not lead me to the conclusion that he was sold out to the Brits as you put it. My book says Brain B about the year 1000 fought the Norse settlers in Dublin and defeated them at Glen Mána. However that was not the end of it they fought again at Clontarf Dublin in 1014 the battle was won but Brian B was a casualty of the Battle.

    In terms of the manifestations IRA those known as the Provisional IRA and those that followed, were a phenomenon of Northern Ireland. My definition of terrorism is:” the use of violence and intimidation, especially for political purposes” does that describe the activity of the provisional IRA and their cohorts. If he cap fits and all that! Having made the statement I think it Was Harold Wilson who said “One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

    I think your perception of the Brits and Empire is 50 possible 60 years out of date and to some extent I think this reflects your prejudice. It is true the Brits did once celebrated Empire as an annual event May 24 was Empire day always celebrated at school. I can remember it being celebrated once at school it would be about 1945, after that, no time was set aside for empire day inside or out side school. I cannot recall at anytime a discussion between the Brits of my acquaintance regretting the passing of Empire. In fact if you asked any Brit under fifty years of age they would not know the date of Empire day or the significance of that date.

    Do again I detect a show of prejudice? Let me explain to you the Meaning the term “crown” in Brit speech. Here is an example of the term is used ” all property of persons who died in testate shall become the property of the crown” This does not mean the property goes the Queen, the government get the property, it is a quirk of English Law the word Crown means the Monarch and Government. If you have met the Queen and from the meeting got the impression she needed you to acknowledge her superiority I would be amaze if you came away with that feeling. I think it more probably your perception is misguided. You need to think of the Queen as head of state in the same way as I think of the President of the USA as head of state. The Queen would expect the normal protocol awarded to her as head of state as she would award to your President or any other head of state. You use that old fashion word minion and used it contemptuously, perhaps to conjure up a picture of kow-towing servants. The Queen does not have minions she has staff just like your President, she gets the same respect from them as your President get from his staff.

    Don’t understand the paragraph beginning, I’d hazard a guess. Please explain?

    Don’t understand” Her family did poke swords at many members of my family. I realise you using “poke swords” likely an idiomatical expression. Please explain?

    You say, ”Her family celebrates on several occasions per year their “victories” over in Scotland and Ireland”. If you think this is true back it with your sources. In my opinion that this is complete balderdash, it is just another myth you have picked up when arranging you prejudices. Suppressing the “Gaelic Tongue you say, I am not aware that the British Government banned the teaching of Gaelic but stand to be corrected on this point. Can you imagine what problems the Irish people would have today if the only wrote and spoke Gaelic they would be the only country in the world with Gaelic and the world would have lost some of its greatest writers and poets. In my opinion for what its worth is, that the most significant oppressors of the Irish people was and is the Catholic Church. It controlled the people by fear of the devil and hell fires, many of the man made tenets of the church were used to dragoon the people. But most oppressive of all was the churches control the education system, indoctrinated young minds as it did. What of the maxim of the Jesuits ” give me a boy before he his seven and I will give you the man” Dose not the weatherman Manifestos have similar ideas of indoctrination of young people.

    The Queen and her family condemning the weathermen, when, where and to whom do attribute this, another myth I suspect, more drivel. If they did how can you object you told me you believe free speech. The Queen and her family make their usual racist condemnation of President Obama, more drivel, and complete poppycock. You need to stand farther back you get a better view. That or change you spectacles that give something more prejudicial views. I am open to you to convincing me of the veracity of this or any other statement contained in your posts.

    I do not know who this person Limbaugh, but I would condemn absolutely those who “poke holes” AT THE CHARACTER OF president Obama or anybody else on the on the basis of his race. On the basis of performance as President I would have thought fair game.

    Reference the paragraph beginning “When you join in a conversation” regarding the slurs of any description, you started it went off like a howling banshee when I asked some clarification about points you had made in a post — see above my comments.

    In terms of your sanity, read my reasons for making a judgement about your mind, I did on the basis of your reactions to my posts. See above my comments.

    You say that should have the sense to expect a few howls back, if I joined howling chorus of right wing freaks, I do have some sense, yes got a PhD in common sense. I did not join howling chorus of right wing freaks, READ MY POSTS. I do not belong to any political party or faction; I am a mere political observer. In my posts I responded only in the manner and tone set by you. But I also made points that you ignored or didn’t read. You continue rant, ridicule, name calling etc.

    I have never described the authors of the weathermen in any vein about them or their manifesto. I was merely researching the document and it contents and got distracted by you comments to other peoples post.

    I can tell you I spent my formative years in a country where Government supported and promoted a command economy. They confiscated all the means of production, distribution and exchange. This meant all the utility companies, transport road and rail, mines, electricity distribution and banks. Each year they all made tremendous loses in Millions each year that required the taxpayers to subsidise them. The electricity went off for hours every day, no body could get enough coal to keep warm, 1947 there were repeated snowstorms, and nobody cleared the roads. Every day there was frosts, bursts pipe in every street, the material for repair required you to have license (Available only to those approved by the Government) in order to purchase them, as did all materials relating to construction, petrol was rationed, almost all food was rationed. You couldn’t buy a car, a house; you couldn’t freely buy candy for the kids. They confiscated ordinary peoples property. It was a nightmare people ended up wearing the clothes of the dead.

    In the town I was born in the city council paid for the building of a Gas works and distribution network, electricity generation and distribution network and the same with the water supply the town built the reservoirs and distribution system, The profit form these city owned companies helped to reduce local taxes. The government confiscated the lot and everybody got a reduced service, the cost of the utilities increased and we paid more tax. Guess what, later many were all sold of to foreign owned private companies and their profits remitted to other countries.

    Brother Jonah whatever comments I have made in this or previous post regarding you state of mine they have not been made because I disagree with you. But rather in

    the manner in which you express your disagreement. Also some of the statement you have made e.g. “One can be imprisoned on a charge of insanity, tortured, drugged and never released. Such a statement is a paranoid reaction or you knowledge and understanding of the law has some shortcoming. Now I am not an expert on American Law but I understand it is based on the same legal, judicial system as the UK. This means you can be charged and remanded in custody for a fixed period of time before the authorities must bring you to trial. Failure to do so means your lawyer can apply for a writ of habeas corpus, your lawyer can interrupt any trial at any time and the judge must grant the writ and set you free if the rules of detention have be broken. As I understand it nobody is kept incarcerated on the basis of a charge, but only when a conviction is obtained.

    Like you say, for a person to be incarcerated because they are insane is a very serious business, I think you would need more than one medically qualified person to pronounce a person insane. Even then you would be examine periodically to confirm the condition. I expect they would give you some form of medication if a person was prone to violence, but torture are you absolutely positive?

    Re: paragraph beginning, “when you join in a conversation” I do recall responding in a satirical sense to the statements which you considered unequivocal and I thought lacked veracity. In some cases the vein in which they were made followed you examples. I plead guilty to making a remark about your mother but as I stated above the remarks you made about my mother were unworthy even of the meanest person and were very, very bad. On the other hand the one and only remark I made about your mother was gentle not malicious and my attempt at humour. It’s possible that humour went over your head.

    Re: Paragraph beginning, “Join a howling chorus of right wing freaks” as noted above READ MY POSTS I did not join on a chorus of ring wing freaks howling or otherwise. I made some perfectly valid points about your style and presentation when responding to posts that express a view contrary to you own. I politely questioned some statements you had that did not offer verisimilitude let alone veracity. You responded as noted above with denigration, ridicule, name calling mockery etc. Some of the points you made were tangential and miles away from the point and you are still making them, I think mostly coloured by you idea that if someone disagrees with you could silence them by your intimidating response.

    Re: Paragraph beginning, “meanwhile, since many”. In terms of the Weathermen mine was intellectual curiosity and not for the purpose of calling into question the election campaign of Barack Obama and I did not does so.

    I do not know anything about the suspicion that the authors of the Weatherman Manifestos committed murder. In reality I am not qualified to write about this but just to enhance my reputation for pedantry, if there is a suspicion but the evidence insufficient and therefore no trial has taken, then logic suggests they have not been proven innocent.

    You say they (the weathermen) targeted property and not people. This statement has something of an air of illogically about. Whose property, was it some extra terrestrials, perhaps it belonged to an animal or maybe some juristic persons.
    I would hazard a guess just like most countries of the world all property is in some form ownership. In the USA I would this falls into three groups. Private, company and Federal (that is in the collective ownership of the people) any interference in the ownership of these at whatever level will impinge on people. When you make a statement like “they are really decent people” you need to prefix by ”in my opinion”, as such a statement can be no more than that, mere opinion. You are very slovenly in that rarely make a distinction between fact and opinion.

    Re: Paragraph beginning, “Equally radical”. You make the charge that the Quote, “American and British military and police recruits are taught to justify torture, murder, indiscriminate use of explosive against children and civilians” end of quote. This a very serious charge, I think I detect deliberate provocation here, I suspect this statement less than specious, certainly with regard to the police and army of Britain and an attempt to blur fact from opinion. I am happy to be convinced give me some examples.

    Let me end by saying. I have an intellectual curiosity about many things; I try not express my self in political partisan manner. When I express my self, it is my view and my view alone. The views I hold are based on my personal experience, observation and the distillation of closely examined verbal and written views of others. I do not appreciate anybody including you Brother Jonah putting words into my mouth or assuming my political viewpoint.

    Do me the curtsey of reading my posts and responding point by point as I do to your posts. Keeping your language temperate would be a bonus.

  12. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    Brother Jonah is too fat from living off the wealth of this Imperialist Capitalistic country to personally participate in World Liberation but he certainly is not opposed to the peasantry in the world taking up arms for “the Revolution”.

  13. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    The Weathermen have long had shit thrown their way from both Extremist Left, who believe that they weren’t violent enough, in that they forswore killing.

    And from the even more extremist Right Wing for standing in the way of their planned conquest of the world. The latest attempt to smear them in the Right Wing Press is to try to tie them to a man who was 7 years old in 1969, a man they hate mostly because his skin is dark.

    The Right Wing Elected government officials are a mere shadow of the Right Wing Extremists in the Police and Judicial and Military branches of Government, positions that are non-elected and there’s no way to vote the pig bastards out. They’ve had FOUR decades to try to prove any charges against the Weathermen, even with the full Hate-filled Police and Judicial Right Wing Freaks they haven’t succeeded. You wouldn’t know it to hear the Beck Wing of Fox News and their acolytes tell the story.

    That would be the Pigs who hate them so deeply they’ll kill their own mothers to get to lynch a Weatherman. With support from some vocal minority of the Citizenry who would help the Pigs kill their own mothers in order to get to a Weatherman.

    If you want to keep chasing bogeymen I should help you. It’ll keep you amused and out of real trouble.

    Bradley Manning is currently being charged with 60 years worth of so called “crimes” for telling the truth and exposing the Lies of the Militarist and Police State Extremists. The ones who say that killing people who refuse to join them in their Lies, Murders, Thefts, Blasphemies and other crimes, is somehow Moral and Patriotic. The ones who want to give Manning the Death Penalty because he exposed their Lying Hatred to be Hateful Lies. And that their pet wars could not be adequately fought if the People don’t believe their Lies they use to justify those wars.

    My bet is the ChickenShit Marine and Army Prison Guards will kill him before trial and claim it was a Jailhouse Suicide. They do that a lot. The Pigloving Bootlicker Slaves will go along with their story.

    And hide their guilt behind some Fluff story about a group who haven’t been active for almost 40 years.

  14. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    “My bet is the ChickenShit Marine and Army Prison Guards will kill him before trial and claim it was a Jailhouse Suicide. They do that a lot. The Pigloving Bootlicker Slaves will go along with their story. And hide their guilt behind some Fluff story about a group who haven’t been active for almost 40 years.”

    Hey thats real tough talk from fat ass super revoulutionary Brother Jonah.I’d like to see wide load Jonah back up his tough talk by relating his feelings personally to a U.S. Marine.

  15. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    You know, I don’t have my original birth certificate nor my DD-214 form showing my Honorable Discharge from the USAF.
    On the other Other hand, Jerome Corsi and his fellow Corporate Minions at Stormfront and Fox and the TeaParty and Minutemen don’t have the documentation that would prove that they’re NOT Right Wing Extremists with ties to the Nazi Party and the Ku Klux Klan.

    They also don’t have any documentation beyond that generated by their own Comrades that would prove the Weathermen to actually be a Terrorist Group, nor the documentation that would prove President Obama to be a Terrorist, a “secret” Muslim, or that he was NOT born in Hawaii.

    They also don’t have the documentation to prove that I wasn’t born in Kansas or that I never served in the Air Force. So, with all their Conspiracy Theory hate speech, all they’ve managed to prove is that they’re a bunch of ChickenHawk ChickenShits who want to send OTHER people off to fight their wars for their profits.

    That’s Extremism. And Terrorism. Also Murder, Theft, Bearing False Witness (a Million Pounds of Nerve gas, yeah, right!) and in spite of telling the world that not-very little piece of Perjury in order to get 7000 American and Coalition Soldiers MURDERED, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan CIVILIANS…

    I mean, hey, if the Army can claim that the four Blackwater Thugs who were hanged from the Bridge at Fallujah were “civilians”, the two Blackwater “para”Military Advisors who just a couple of weeks ago got their asses shot off at a firing range in Afghanistan, supposedly “civilians” and the several times CIA Torturers oops I’m supposed to say “enhanced interrogation specialists” instead of the Sex Offender Rapists who get aroused by the pain of helpless and unwilling victims, right? Who were blown away in the course of prisoner revolts in Afghanistan and other “terrorist” acts were supposed to be “civilians”. Then I can lump every single Human Being Slaughtered by the U.S. and Coalition Military (and their “civilian” comrades like Blackwater, WackenHut and the CIA) in as civilians.

    Where are the “documents” to support those murders?

    But calling George Bush and his Terrorist ChickenHawk Chickenshit accomplices Terrorists and ChickenHawks and Chickenshits is supposedly (and here I compile and combine all y’all Right Wing Extremists’ insults in one) “leftie loons who espouse Conspiracy Theories and Hate Speech (“chickenhawk” although accurate is defined by y’all as being “hate speech”) who need to be medicated, locked in a padded cell, and killed, not necessarily in that order”

    But an American Black child born in 1962 in Hawaii was supposedly smuggled into the country by his United States Citizen Mother, who would have made him automatically a United States Citizen, by HER citizenship, (if I recall correctly, she was born in Kansas too) was somehow (y’alls’ story breaks down well before this, so I’m trying to write your fantasy out coherently even though you don’t write it coherently) Was Destined By A Muslim Prophecy That Nobody Else Except For The Non-Muslim Nazi Freaks At Fox and Stormfront and The Tea Party Patriots Ever Heard Of, to become President of The United States, one of the TWO jobs in the entire nation that requires American-soil birth, the other being Vice President because the Vice Presidents job is to assume the office of President in case something happens to the President…. At a time in America when 13 states, 1/4 of the total states in the Union, had laws that effectively prevented Black people from even using the same bathrooms or water fountains as white people, and some truly harsh laws against Blacks voting or holding elected office.

    And that he somehow joined the Minutemen when he was 6 because they weren’t in business for very long.

    Yes Sir, that is a REALLY coherent and sane conspiracy theory that y’all have going there.

    There’s no point in fact checking any of that crap because there aren’t any facts which CAN be checked.

    But people who oppose YOU goofballs making Public Policy, and Laws, and Wars, based on bullshit like that are “crazy”.

    Y’all can all just line up and take turns helping yourselves to a Texas-sized all-you-can-eat Buffet of Kiss My Liberal Ass.

  16. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Hector, you have my picture. I have your link to a guitar shop.
    I don’t have the pictures of every marine or soldier.

    If the Marines want to try to take away the Freedom they say and You say they gave me, they know where to find me.
    Might makes Right, yes? Show yourself to be the lying coward you truly are.

    Show how you’re somehow different from the Nazis who used the same concept. Or the Romans. Pretend I’m an Iraqi child if that makes it easier for you to get up the courage to attack.

    I’m not hidden anywhere. Even if you ARE tough enough to take me down, you’ll still not be right and neither will YOUR Imperial Storm Troopers, bitch.
    The Nazi SchutzStaffl were plenty tough too. They took down quite a lot of United States Marines.

    So did the Afghan and Iraqi resistance.

    So did your Marine Bitch “Hero” Colonel Ollie North, who made money selling the bombs that killed 258 of his comrades in Beirut, 17 at the Embassy and 241 at the Marine Compound.

    He, like you, uses the Might Makes Right Propaganda that the Marines are somehow Holy because of being trained Killers, to justify sending them to their deaths. So does the ChickenHawk George Bush.

    It’s too bad you have to resort to Nazi-style threats and posturing like that.

    Don’t bother apologizing to me, just look up every mother and brother and father and son and daughter or husband or wife of the U.S. soldiers killed in the war YOU and others like you propagate with BLATANT LIES, and the same for the families of the Killed and Maimed so-called “enemies” and apologize to THEM for keeping the hatred and the war going.

    Yeah, punk, I’m putting it to YOU that YOU and people like YOU are the ones responsible for their deaths. Threaten or beat that truth down if you can.

    What other Lies and Threats are you going to allow to cross your teeth in order to somehow prove yourself right?

  17. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Oh, by the way, “Super Patriot Hero” Hector, YOUR so called Marine Heroes “gunny” Bob Newman and Oliver North, have no qualms whatsoever about justifying assaults against paraplegic-from-war-injuries Marine Ron Kovic.

    What about it, “Patriot”? Or any of the other Right Wing Extremists who have seen fit to respond to these comments?

    How much courage does it take to sit behind a FOX news microphone and say that Ron Kovic DESERVED to be dragged from his wheelchair and assaulted by Cops, for the so-called crime of saying that YOU SICK SADISTIC MURDEROUS FUCKS were WRONG?
    I guess that “once a marine, always a marine” doesn’t count when the Marine talks back to you. Or anybody else who talks back to you. Real Hero you are, “Patriot” Muñoz.

    Where was your God-Damned FAKE concern for Decorated Marine Kovic? Maybe I missed it searching the internet for any hint that you ever objected to any assault against any Soldier or Marine who was attacked for joining or espousing the (insert name of undeclared war here)Veterans Against the War?

    Because I don’t find your name or Gunny Bob’s name or Oliver Norths name in any expression of outrage over that sort of treatment of Marine and Army Veterans.

    How about it, show us where you actually spoke against the treatment given to Kovic, or to Max Cleland, who is being excoriated and pilloried even today, four decades after leaving 3 of his limbs and a quarter of his original body mass on the surgical floor, huh, Mr so-called Super-Patriot, can you do that for us? Or any of the others who sit behind their keyboards and make your sneers and threats about people MENTIONING your wrongdoing.

    When you and whichever Bitch Buddies of yours come to assault me for talking back to you, YOU REMEMBER THAT FACT, punks.


  18. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    As you can tell I am paralyzed with fear when Brother Jonah talks tough.In between copius amounts of cheeseburgers and milkshakes Brother Jonah enjoys as he lives of the comforts and resources of the most vile Imperialist Capitalistic in the world, Brother Jonah has been known to engage in homophobic behavior and also to make disparaging remarks about minorities.

  19. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Yeah. Right. So, let’s get this straight. You believe somehow that I’m a weakling and therefore will be easy to fight. That doesn’t sound very courageous. Then you suggest that somebody else should fight me, somebody with combat training.

    If you’re saying that murderous warmongers who hide behind the Armed Might of their empire are a minority, I hope you’re right. Wouldn’t make a difference if they’re you’re not the minority.

    You said at the beginning of your long tirade, second comment I believe, not going to wade through bullshit to look, that my computer skills and the very computer are a gift of Capitalism.

    In a way, you’d be almost right. When I had my feet broken up by your propped up by the military Capitalist System, I was for a while working at Goodwill, cleaning up the trash you “elite” so-much-better-than-the-Peasant-Jonah types throw out your car windows. At Goodwill I had an Employee Discount so the $50 i386 computer running only DOS and with 4 megabytes of RAM only cost me $30. It was already obsolete by at least ten years when I got it. Then I learned to repair them. I also do recycling. Not a very high paid job if you don’t have a truck and can’t drive one even if you have one. Do you know, the Rich people throw away perfectly good computers that only need the hard drive cable or a stick of RAM removed and reinserted properly? They’ll take them to a Capitalist store like Best Buy or Radio Shack and inquire about having them repaired, and be told that it will cost $60 an hour with a two hour minimum. Or they can buy a refurbished computer for $100, but they’ll be pushed into buying a “new” one with about a hundred bucks worth of parts, for around $300.

    The technician at the Goodwill wasn’t supposed to show me how to do the job, Capitalist Rules, pay to play, you know the ones. But he’s a friend and showed me anyway. That’s Socialism in action, rather than Capitalist Inaction.

    So this machine on which I’m typing, I found in a trash heap, discarded by one of my “betters” in the Elite Military as it turns out. Thrown away in the hopes that it would be taken to a landfill and crushed so that the Toxic Metals in the circuit boards would leach into the soil and the water table, so you’d be drinking it for generations to come. So would everybody downstream from here, since we’re right at the highest point in the Contiguous U.S., that would be everywhere from the western bank of the Mississippi all the way to California.

    I put it together with the skills I learned from sheer necessity and without the help of your Fascist Government. In fact with active RESISTANCE from your Fascist Government.

    I use a very Socialist operating system, an each-one-teach-one system called Linux. Developed cooperatively by literally MILLIONS of users. Rather than the For-Profit systems of Macintosh (which works) and Microsoft (which is a piece of shit)

    In a way, because Intel and its many partner corporations, in this case Gateway, Hewlett Packard, Western Digital, Seagate…

    pretty much gave me the computer by selling their Newer Overpriced Junk to people they’re conning into believing that their newer ones will work better, you COULD almost make the case that Capitalism works for me.

    I did mention that I do recycling, yes? To eke out the piddling amount WHICH I MORE THAN EARNED through my years of doing wage-slavery jobs for Elitist Pricks (you might recognize some of their characteristics) who, now that I can no longer work for them, put 4 times MY wages into the pockets of Halliburton, call me a bum. I ride a bicycle with a really cool homemade trailer, one of my “bum” recyclist friends put it together from scrap metal to do my recycling. I get all kinds of comments on it like “Why don’t you get a JOB?” (while I’m working, and if you’re one of those elitist fucks who don’t believe it’s work, YOU try it)

    Pedaling a bicycle is hard to do, especially if I make some really good scores on the scrap metal. Walking would be on the other hand IMPOSSIBLE.

    But because I actually learned a few things in Public School, and I am rather intelligent, the Stuck-up Rich Bitch Snobs from the Republican and Tea Parties, mostly, call me an “Elitist”. These are the same ones who would, if they see me out working, stick their long Yankee noses so far up in the air they would drown in a sudden rainstorm. And call me a “bum” and if I dare cross or ride down “their” streets, which I own every bit as much as you do, I get even more insults and threats.

    Somehow, I suspect that you’re one of Those. You sure do communicate like They do. Right down to threatening to get Government Officers, in your case the Marines, to assault me and maybe kill me for speaking against bullshit like that.

    And then say that you’re all about “freedom”.

    Tell me, Hector, have you yet taken a stand against the Racist Immigration Policies? I notice you’ve taken a passive stance FOR the Racists who also replied to this thread. By choosing to attack somebody you thought was a weakling rather than challenging their racist bullshit.

    See, I’ve had guns in my face because I “look mex” and then, once the Racist Pigs you love so much found out that I was in fact born in the United States, blamed for somehow CAUSING their Racism by my dark complexion.

    So, how about it? When they come up to you and scream “donde nacido?” are YOU ever going to remind them, even politely, that they’re racist pukes? Somehow I don’t think you will.

    You’ll probably go to one of their Political Rallies and light the cross for them. Offer to wash their robes, lick the blood off their boots. Maybe I’m wrong, but you sure do sound like that.

  20. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Oh, and just so we don’t actually forget…
    Free Bradley Manning.

    Now, THAT’S a real patriot.

    All that “love it or leave it” and “my country right or wrong” and “yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir” Rabid Conformist “revolution” y’all teabags espouse is Slavery, not Freedom. Surrender rather than resistance. “Don’t Tread on me, unless you’re rich and powerful or might beat me up if I object” type of submissive behavior.

    You kids really need to grow you some actual courage.

  21. What, no response? Must be your fingers are too greasy from all the Cheeseburgers.

    Maybe perhaps you ever decided to think about the Ron Kovic Marine-in-wheelchair-who-your-pigs-attacked person?

    Without a peep of protest from you or for that matter, any of the others who took it on themselves to castigate me for not joining your Howling Hate Mob against people who wrote a document when I was 8 years old.

    You don’t have to keep your racist puke in your own mouth. You can vomit on any ideals of Freedom and Democracy that are left in the world, despite your best efforts and those of the ones who actually do the Thug Work promoting your favorite form of dictatorship. It washes off me with a little soap and water.

    It won’t ever wash out of your soul, though, nor will the blood of uncounted Killed and Maimed in your wars of conquest. Blood of those guilty as well as those innocent. Doesn’t matter much in the long run, “thou shalt not kill” is really an all-inclusive commandment. It’s probably not the main reason I don’t go around killing. Maybe God just created me with a little more snap and common decency than some people. Maybe it’s because I don’t make a conscious effort to over-ride my conscience.

    Who knows? You and your fellow Hate Freaks certainly don’t.

  22. Avatar ML says:

    It is a common misinterpretation, the commandment that you refer to as “thou shalt not kill” is more accurately “thou shalt not commit murder” for if you read in context the message of the old testament it clearly allows for killing with justification. Otherwise, there would be no deterrent for any person to suffer the consequences of murdering and giving license to such acts to go unpunished.

  23. Avatar ML says:

    I would also beg to disagree with you on so many other points, but due to time constraints (work) and the medium (this blog) I can only comment on your lack of understanding that war is inevitable and necessary, given certain circumstances. It is by far a greater good that through the sacrifice of those willing and able to carryout the defense of liberty and our God given human rights (not the “UN” version of human rights”) that goodness and hope may prevail for people not living within the confines of a more civil society as we enjoy here in the greatest country (in my humble opinion) the USA.

  24. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Lies disguised by Relative Morality.

    It’s ok to go to foreign lands and seize them for the profit of a very few and kill anybody who resists. And their families. Including and especially the elderly, infirm and babies.

    There was not one war fought in my lifetime which was “necessary”. Those of you who promote that war have no idea about a “more civil society” and you demonstrate that anytime we LEGITIMATELY and LEGALLY Protest your Murder Campaign in Foreign Lands. And those of your Comrades who say they fought or are fighting for “freedom” prove themselves to be Lying just as you did, ML. Just as you did.

    That means you don’t have the courage to tell the Truth. Just as they don’t ML. Just as they don’t.

    Kiss my liberal ass about it.

  25. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    By the way, ML, it’s those of us who stand and defy your Hate-filled vision of what America should be and your Terrorist Regime, including the Military, working to make your sick Fascist fantasy a reality across America… It’s US, not them and not YOU, who have kept America as relatively free as it is.

    YOUR side, the PIGS both military and “civil” have fought freedom with gas, bullets both rubber and metal, dogs, clubs, high pressure water cannon, lynchings, beatings, domestic espionage, drugging and torturing suspects, and they “fight” with their keyboards, sending RETARDS to the weblogs of people who oppose the excesses of those, like yourself, who wish to completely control the “civil” society.

    Your hate speech? Feh. Not one of YOU ever stood up for the demonstrators at a Peace Rally, against your so called “civil” so-called “authorities”. NOT ONE, and if you say you ever did then YOU LIE just like your lying cowardly amoral murdering PIG comrades do.

  26. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Oh, and murder is also defined as killings done as “punishment” for crimes they did not commit. Such as the Afghan people who weren’t responsible for 9/11. And every single Iraqi who was blamed for 9/11.

    The non-existent WMDs which the so-called “leaders of the free world” knew in advance were faked. How many people, including Americans, died because of those LIES?

    Every one was a victim of Bearing False Witness. That’s MURDER no matter how you slice it.

    You’re the worst kind of Liar and Coward, ML. You wish to hide outright Murder behind the word of God. Blame GOD for the greed and lies and thefts and MURDERS of Your Leaders.

    You should be ashamed but I can tell you’re not.

    What will you do to prove that wrong, to “disagree”? Tell more of the LIES your leaders and Masters have already told, and have already been disproven many times over?

    I sincerely believe that you already know that they’re lies, ML. That you know it and will continue to LIE in order to “justify” mass murder.

  27. Avatar ML says:

    Your vision of the world has been so skewed by your personal failures and frustrations, that you hurl insults when no offense have I made unto you. You spew hatred and associate me with the objects of your affliction, when I have made no such associations nor have any cause to do so. You want to label me, or in the words of Saul Alinsky “Pick the Target, Freeze It, Personalize It and Polarize It.” You rattle off so much and think to have the high moral ground to judge me for daring to disagree with the all knowing Brother Jonah. Yet you fail again in your vain attempt. It is only the fool who by way of belligerence holds in contempt any repudiation to his status quo. I regret having posted any comment on your blog, it is yours and not mine, I was just mistaken having believed that you could carry on an intelligent to and fro with someone as ignorant as you. I bow out gracefully and good bye.

  28. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    yeah, yeah. You realize that by the Corporate Rules you think are such a great idea, make all Americans conform to your way of thought… You were stealing from your boss when you were surfing the internet at work.

    According to the Law of Moses, you nor I nor anybody would have the right to judge somebody worthy of death. Yet you judged, in writing, every victim of your military as worthy of death. Especially the Babies.

    According to the Law of Moses, you could judge a case if you were purified. Redeemed. But to judge one to death? You would have to never be guilty of a Death Penalty case yourself. Meaning no masturbation. No talking back to your parents. EVER.

    As to does the word mean Kill or Murder, you seem to be quoting some Right Wing so-called “ministers of the gospel” who are paid to seek out justification for killing people.

    Lying Racist War-Pigs like Pat Robertson and Jack van Impe.

    If you wished to judge somebody guilty of a Death Penalty offense, George Bush AND Sarah Palin claimed that God was leading your war.

    They’re saying that God is a liar. Because they had to use Bearing False Witness to start their war. That means every man woman and CHILD killed in their war, was MURDERED and there would be no quibbling about an Aramaic word as put forth by people who don’t actually study or speak Aramaic or Hebrew.

    So your sources for it being a “just” war are who, again? The ones who said they never targeted civilians in airstrikes? Never fired on any position that wasn’t firing on them? Look for the story of the USAF Pilot who murdered a Kurdish Shepherd because he couldn’t tell the difference between Sheep and armed humans.

    I published it here among other places.

    Your sources are also the ones who claimed there were a Million Pounds, more actually, 500 Metric Tonnes, of Nerve Gas in Iraq.

    Again with the False Witness and there were plenty of people who knew better and told the truth. Colonel Scott Ritter for one.

    An extremely right wing private spy group called Strategic Forecasting for another. Go to their websites and call them liars. You’ll be censored and rightfully so.

    Especially as their data have proven correct. They were proven correct BEFORE the Invasion of Iraq was started.

    There was and still is a move to tie Saddam Hussein to 9/11. Which failed simply because it’s a Lie.

    So, tell me, or Lying Thief who steals from your Corporate Master, why would I believe you or any of the other liars?

    I don’t think I need to believe you.

  29. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    To complete the thought, even though ML chickened errr “bowed” out…

    Since Sarah Palin and George Bush and, our Beloved ML, claim that God instructed them to Lie, murder and steal, they commit the further crime of Blasphemy. Something the more radical of Jews even today would consider worthy of death by stoning.

    But it’s ignorance to point that out. Frankly, I don’t give a fat rats ass what ML or his fellow lying freaks think. They’ll write their lies, I’ll counter with the truth. Simple as that.


  30. Oh, and ML, “personal failure”?

    All your Blood Money, all that you’ve gotten for killing BABIES, and your still a pathetic Cowardly PUKE.

    Then there’s the Personal Failure of YO MOMMA for failing to raise a son or daughter with honor, dignity and personal courage.

    That’s too bad.

  31. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Since quite a few made comments to the effect that they believe the Store-Bought Corporate Slave “pastors” who preach that they have been given the revelation (meaning: pulled it out of their own collective rectal orifice) that “Thou shalt not Kill” was originally “Thou shalt not Murder”. This puts them, and of course, only them, in the drivers seat as to deciding what is and is not Murder. They and only they get to decide that the Iraqi and Afghan children killed by the wars were “necessary” deaths, as our last Troll put it. Maybe he should go to Iraq or Afghanistan, and really, any other Socially Retarded Animated Sphincter who believes that way, and tell an Afghan or Iraqi family whose child or any other family member has been killed that it’s “necessary” for their loved ones to have given their lives so that he can live in a “civil” society.

    A “civil” Society that is anything BUT civil towards dissidents who oppose that point of view. The Freedom is only accorded those who Freely Conform to that viewpoint.

    But, in the EXTREMELY unlikely event that any of them would ever develop sufficient cojones to go up to a grieving family and say “Ha-ha, we offed your kid, for our profit, get used to it” let’s ramp it up a little bit, yes? Don’t go in packing a gun and don’t go in under cover of Marine Corps guards who are there to make sure you don’t receive the retribution such an attitude rightly deserves.

    Like I said, EXTREMELY unlikely. Oh, and the hatred that generates against not only the Loud-mouth PUNKS who claim to represent All Americans, but indeed ALL Americans, lasts for generations.

    Remember how some of you Right Wing Racist Retards feel towards every person of the Muslim Faith or any ethnic group that’s predominantly Muslim… Over the alleged actions of allegedly 19 young men. Six of whom are actually still alive. And say so. “well, Sheriff, some of them SAID they wasn’t dead, but y’all know how THEY lie”

    And, yes, that IS a racist attitude you exhibit. Call it something different if you wish, but it’s racist and always was, and always will be. It was racist when your daddies called the Koreans and VietNamese “gooks” or “dinks”.

    If there’s no voice of Reason coming from America or Americans, such as our words which you despise and mock as “ignorant”… then the only American Voices who would ever be heard are those of you Retarded Racists who insist that their children had to be killed, MURDERED if you wish to quibble over words written in a language you, personally, never learned.

    That the deaths of those children who were MURDERED, and the war that MURDERED them, were “necessary”.

    One of the euphemisms for Slavery was “the necessary evil”.

    And defended on the “constitutional” grounds that the State has a right to place more value on “property” than on Human Rights, among which are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.. if those Human Souls who are being deprived of their rights and liberty are born as “property”.

    In fact, a lot of you TeaBag ASSHOLES go around waving a Confederate Battle Flag touting how very proud you are that your ancestors, and mine, were fighting not for “hate” but for States Rights… the State’s right to enforce the Very Hate Filled institution of Slavery.

    Think not? Come up with a valid explanation of how depriving people of their liberty before they’re even born is somehow “Love”. See if you can do it without making it sound like purest essence of Bullshit.

    Then prove that the reason they were held as slaves, the color of their skin, is somehow not Racist.

    As for the “necessary” war…

    The entire war having been started and continued with falsified evidence would go against Due Process in that 7000 American Citizens lost their lives to it.

    True that they were following orders, but that leaves the culpability on the chain of command above them.

    The treaties governing the prosecution of a state of war reflect as high a standard of proof as any capital offense tried in America. And according to Article 6 of the Constitution, such treaties have the full force of law as the Constitution itself.

    “This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.”

    Thus even the Presidential Privilege doesn’t extend to breaking treaties. Like, the Hague and Geneva conventions and the Charter of the United Nations.

    Those who say they’re “nationalists” and don’t agree, whither their argument? Are they to claim sovereign status only for ONE nation? That wouldn’t be nationalism, but Imperialism,

    All of which, Constitution, its dependent Treaty Laws, statutes, Codes, they’re just layers of legal checks and balances to a basic Law of morality. Thou shalt not Kill.

    There’s no difference between Commoners and Kings in that law. No more Sovereign right to murder than an Individual right to murder.

    Prove that the war was just. All your Right Wing Verbal Flatulence has come up with as justification are concepts and accusations that have been demonstrated FALSE.

    Again, the challenge, why should WE or anybody else believe the words of known liars?

  32. Avatar Denis says:

    You people a fucked up

  33. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Yeah, we know. Because it’s stupid to point out that Capitalism has its own self destruct sequence built into it, and so does its partner in crime Imperialism.
    Or people worshiping the both of them together like a two-headed god.

    So there’s no reason for so called Terrorists to lift a finger to break it down, it breaks down on its own accord.

    EXCEPT… the Capitalist Terrorists and Imperialist Terrorists tear down every country that stands in their way, including and especially their original Host Countries, and kill a whole lot of people and cause all kinds of Human Misery, Poverty and plant the seeds of whatever empire is going to replace their own.

    Kind of a never-ending cycle, UNLESS…

    Unless people get a little smarter and build alternate economies and alternate political systems, networked together perhaps, like, say, Socialism and Anarcho-Syndicalism. It was economic religious political systems like that which got Christianity and Judaism through the fall of the Roman Capitalist Empire. Then of course evolved into a mirror image of the system they replaced.

    But of course, that’s a fucked up. I’m just guessing that you’re aiming the comment at the original authors of the Manifesto, who wrote it in 1969. And also that you’re filled with such rage at them being correct in their assessment that you’re missing letters when you’re banging keys on your computer.

    You’ll need to either find some other outlet for that rage or have to replace your keyboard more frequently.

    If you want a definition of Socialism, here’s one: If you share a meal with your brother and he in turn helps you out, perhaps helping each other to get more meals which you can then share…
    That’s Socialism. Of course adding in more humans means the system is more complex with each addition, but the basis always remains the same. Kind of like Jesus and Moses taught but most of their followers never learned.

  34. That’s a pretty definition of socialism, but an inaccurate one, leaving out some essential elements. First of all, the meal you “share” does not belong to you in the first place, even if you have produced it by growing the food yourself, or killing some critter. Under socialism, it belongs to the collective, to be distributed according to the dictates of the majority, as directed by some central planner. Secondly, the element of free choice would be absent. You would have a Kantian duty to share the meal, enforced either at the point of society’s gun, or subtly, after years of indoctrination and social conditioning, so you wouldn’t even need to see the gun. Some would call this “moral” conditioning, but no morality exists in the presence of compulsion. By definition, the moral must be the freely chosen, or it is something other than morality.

    By contrast, if you know that the meal is yours, and freely choose to help your brother by sharing it, either out of a genuine spirit of generosity, or as as free exchange for him agreeing helping you to catch the next critter, that would be moral. It would also preserve the dignity of of each of you, allowing you to face one another as equal men, free to choose whether to deal with one another or not.

  35. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Whereas Capitalism has given me two badly fucked up feet, a fucked up knee, gave me minimum wage while Halliburton pocketed 80% of the money they charged for MY Labor, and now, they’re wanting to abolish Minimum wage, Employer contributions to Social Security, Employer contributions to Unemployment Insurance,(which I couldn’t collect when they broke my feet up in the first place, because I was unable to work, and thus, “not seeking employment”) mandatory Employer-paid Workman’s compensation insurance AND expansion of the Tort Reforms that allowed Halliburton to skate away without paying a thin dime of compensation for destroying my construction career.

    Oh, and with the “Right to Work” laws we’re not allowed the “dignity” of collectively bargaining for decent working conditions or enough money to even pay the costs of Producing our Labor, far less make a profit from it. Would Halliburton stand for having such limitations placed on THEIR income? No?
    But those of us who put the money in their greedy hands and feed their Fat Lazy Collective Arse are not just expected to take that, but DEMANDED that we do, and if we refuse, the Capitalists send the PIGS to arrest us and beat us while handcuffed for our “arrogant” insistence on being treated as Equals.

    Capitalism only works for the Rich Bitches and their lawyers.
    Peddle the lies about Dignity to somebody else. Maybe at a Tea Party, those Tea-Tards are stupid enough to believe anything.

  36. Observe the techniques of control, kids. BJ deftly ignores my central argument, the necessity of compulsion and coercion to manage his socialist utopia. The compulsion being achieved thru guilt for his poor mangled feet, and failing that, the calls for more laws to force “compassion” from the producers of wealth. Like the beggar who rails at passersby, demanding tribute for his suffering, offering only his wounds and suffering in trade and as justification, no more obscene tableaux could present itself.

    But I refuse to accept the unearned, either in terms of reward, or in the form of guilt. No one reading this likely contributed to his condition, but we are all asked, no, demanded, to share in his suffering. Suffering does not create entitlement; pain does not confer moral reward, except in the twisted mind of the altruist liberal. Charity is fine, if one has the inclination to help his fellow man. But to force alms via the creation of a false “duty”, or worse yet, to bring to bear the oppressive force of massive government, is the ultimate evil. But to a rational mind, such efforts are futile, We do not accept the guilt, and no government can force us to be productive. The strike has already begun; we will not create wealth for the looters and the plunderers.

  37. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Capital starts with making money from the labor of other people, buying and selling THEIR Production. With a few checks and balances, like Labor Unions, for instance, capital can be stopped from the worst offenses of robbery of the workers by Capital.

    Funny thing about Capitalists, though, they buy up all the Police and unofficial PIG auxiliaries they can, which is usually more than Labor can afford. They then unleash these Paid Professional Slave-handlers on Labor to “keep them in line”.

    I’m sure you don’t object to that, just from your sorry-ass reaction after the St Paddy’s Day Massacre.
    Basically you joined in with the PIG supporters who say, still, that when the PIGS order us to obey them then we’re morally and legally obligated to Obey The FUCKING COWARDLY PIGS as though they were God almighty.
    So much for “Capital” bringing any kind of Freedom.
    Freedom to obey your Rich Bitch Masters.

    Which is another aspect of Capitalism, once you have “your” local workforce tamed to the point where they can’t resist, you Capitalists inevitably insist on turning your attentions, together with Conscript Slave Soldiers, toward conquering neighboring City States and other governments in a little exercise called “Imperialism”.

    Fact is, Michael, Capital is propped up by Tax Money spent on Military and Other PIGS forcing people to labor for you Capitalist Rich Bitch PIGS at wages YOU consider acceptable and under whatever conditions YOU consider acceptable and then call US thieves and Tyrants when WE band together to demand better.

    The “free” Market is subsidized more than any So-called Socialist Government has EVER managed to fund the Working Class. YOU, Michael, and your corporate Masters, are the True Welfare Recipients.

    YOU live high on the Public Tit and say you gain your blood money honestly. What arrogance your lies exhibit.

    And then you punks wonder why people throw Airplanes at your God-damned Temple to Monetary Imperialism.

  38. Avatar Pilarerecto says:

    Michael, don’t even try any more to discuss socialism and any type of politics on this circus blog of Eric’s. It’d be like trying to talk with a schizophrenic about Jesus. Jonah simply is not a socialist and neither really is Eric. They are clowns.

    ‘YOU live high on the Public Tit and say you gain your blood money honestly. What arrogance your lies exhibit. And then you punks wonder why people throw Airplanes at your God-damned Temple to Monetary Imperialism.’

    Yawn… Jonah must have done some bad moonshine in the past.

  39. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    Brotha Jonah delivers “the Revolution” from The United States so he can have a steady supply of cheeseburgers and milkshakes for his “revolutionary” diet .Brotha Jonah pines for those heady days of yester year when “the people” were marching on the streets by day and returning to their comfortable dorms or suburban homes at night.

  40. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    Well, at least i know you’re not a Federal Agent and you’re not following me around. That Cheeseburger fixation you have sounds familiar though, when I dig through dumpsters for recyclable metals to sell to support my food, housing, medical care and clean clothing habits, sometimes I’m told that “McDonalds is hiring” or, “There aren’t any cheeseburgers in there”.

    Which I don’t eat from dumpsters, although some of the PEOPLE I know do. I at least have the skills to put together computers or fix computers that other people throw away. It’s why I have this one in fact. I don’t make nearly enough to satisfy my expenses though. As though poverty were some kind of Shining Honor. I mean, if being poor were a virtue I’d be a saint or maybe even the Pope. While it isn’t a one way ticket to Sainthood, it also isn’t a sin to be poor, it’s just a condition of life that most of the people in the world have to deal with constantly, and Capitalism offers no opportunity to change that condition. Unless one has enough extra money after paying for ones lodging, food, clothing, transportation (mine is a bicycle) and Medical Care, in which case one could perhaps invest what little money is left over and within a few generations his grandchildren might be allowed to enter into society as equals… just not the equals of the Rich Masters.

    Who look on somebody not being Rich the way you appear to look upon somebody not being poor. Or say you do, many agents of the Very Rich try to accuse people of hypocrisy if the people so accused are at any level above living in a cardboard shack. There were a few times in my life that a Cardboard Shack would have been an enormous improvement. I’ve also lived in tents, a camper shell that i bought for a week’s wages and a couple of times in caves.

    So I really don’t know where exactly you get the Cheeseburger routine. If somebody else is buying I’ll take a cheeseburger. Paying my own way I’ll use that money and buy several low cost meals that are more nutritious. That’s the thrift born of poverty. Maybe you’ve heard of it.

    Oh, and I managed to get a Brand New Bicycle for the first time in my 5 decades treading this Vale of Tears. Yay for me but I didn’t pay for it, somebody who cares a lot about me insisted on buying me a new one.
    If it weren’t for the propensity of the richer citizens to throw away or give away perfectly usable goods I’d be a most wretched soul. Mostly “throw away” because generosity only counts for them if they can get paid for it. By the way, their Fake Revolutionary Tea Party, a mob drummed up by the Rich to counter any REAL revolutionary or even evolutionary changes that would mean they’d make a slightly smaller Obscene Profit, they’re the ones who make the most Stupid Comments about this and any other thread involving Marxism, Socialism, Liberalism, Anarchism, Not-being-a-retarded-Redneck-ism, things like that.

    If you’re paid to randomly insult people who don’t have a Worship the Capitalist Elite agenda, then you’re ripping off your employer for everything he pays you above minimum wage. Because you’re really not very good at it.

    If you’re doing it on your own volition and for whatever satisfaction you can get then you’re deluded and think much to highly of yourself, and should examine your life to find the source of your arrogance and try to eliminate it.

    Good Day, Sir.

  41. Avatar Brother Jonah says:

    The Weathermen, by the way, risked their lives by what challenge they made against Nixon. There are many who believe that any surviving members should be arrested, given a mock trial then executed. Usually those who feel that way are members of the Racist and fascist Fake Revolutionary Tea Party and serve the Corporate Powers. OK, so “usually” isn’t the proper term.

    “Always” and “Consistently” are the more proper terms.

  42. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    Sometimes I think you can be sane and an actual hhuman being until you start digressing into that hypocritical revoulutionary diatribe.The “revoultionaries” are much bigger hypocrites than the capital elitists that they rail against.The revolutionaries think they know what is best for all the people and that they should be in control.They can’t wait to get their turn via the vehicle of revoulution to get their hands on the coffers and believe me when they do they will not be dispersing it to the workers and the poor.At least with the captilalistic elitists you know where they are coming from.They want to generate wealth for themselves and throw a few crumbs down the ladder.The revolutionaries when they take control will keep every bit of it to aggrandize themselves and secure their position.

  43. Avatar Hector Munoz says:

    Excuse spelling grammar is not one of my strong points.I know what hypocrisy lies behind the scenes of the revolution.I used to promote that nonsense until I could see it for what it actually is.

  44. Avatar Darren Astolfi says:

    Skyking, Skyking, this code is your next piece of info. Do contact the agency at your earliest convenience. No further information until next transmission. This is broadcast #3698. Do not delete.

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