SUPPORT THE TROOPS? Oh let’s address this buggaboo straight off. Apparently you can’t protest war without disrespecting the troops, that criticizing the soldiers’ mission means to criticize them for following their orders. Okay… if it is indeed all grey area for those lacking grey matter, then I suppose you can’t support the troops. And so I WON’T, NOT A LICK. The killing needs to stop. Expressing “support” for those doing the killing gets you more killing. Here are two complementary banners to protest the use of drones to increase our remote killing:
Paired with the followup below, because what’s an antiwar message today without the obligatory “support the troops” nonsense:
Not My Tribe
The Myth of Middle Ground
Hey Eric, here is an idea: If you want the Troops to refuse to return enemy fire, you and Tony can go stand in front of the U.S. Troops!
Actually, Raven, we do stand in front of ‘enemy fire’ as you and the other Right Wingers constantly do fire away at us nonstop with your ‘defend’ the US troops crap. It is our ability to stand up to you that pisses you off so damn much, too. Go ahead, and get hysterical, too. Who the hell cares if you nuts get all in a huff?
PLUS, you don’t actually believe in Free Speech even though that is precisely what the Occupy Movement is actually most about. Instead, you and your buddies constantly have threatened to physically shut me and others up for talking about what the US military is all about. I think that basically you are just pathetic bullies and thugs and I feel sad for you.
And what is saddest is how confused you and the other Right Wing Libertarian types actually are when you think that our Occupy Movement is really only about Right Wing blab, instead of being a Movement to create an alternative program to what the Establishment has. Most of your crowd, Raven, is actually out there campaigning for a Far Right Republican even! How much more lost and confused can you actually get?
Here is thought tony, occupy was never meant to be left or right wing movement. it was meant to be a movement about unity, it was never meant to be just anti war. you guys ripped apart this movement for personal reasons and agendas. there is line between free speech and respect which none of you have. you can say what you want just say it with respect.
Hoho you want to blame YOUR DROPPING OUT of Occupy on “antiwar protest”?! OCS is still actively against foreclosures, fracking, polluters, economic exploitation, inequality, racism, etc. What YOU’RE missing is the Teaparty militarism that had crept into the local group. Nope, sorry, Occupy Wall Street was never about worshiping our soldiers and their crimes.
Yes all are welcome, even flag-waving habitues, but with at least an inkling of right and wrong. Brittany, when you declare that you don’t care how many villages your husband razes so long as he comes home safe, you’ve pretty much limited your voice on social justice issues.
Brittany, I think it quite rich that you are now talking to me about having ‘respect’ when your friends and cohorts are currently spamming this blog non stop with ad hominem hates about me being gay, being a past prisoner in a Turkish prison, reading porn, etc. etc. The mentality even extends to trying to physically menace and threaten us, too. And the real issues you and they don’t actually talk much about, simply because you and they don’t have a clue to what’s going on in the world. Instead most of the comments from your side of the coin are pure personal nastiness and nothing at all else.
Most of your like minded friends don’t subscribe to any of your sermons about ‘respect’, now do they? I try to be respectful to your side but your buddies are simply just don’t getting it, since all I mainly get in response is more and more pure unadulterated personal hatred back at me.
As to issues, nobody ever proposed that the Occupy Movement be ‘just anti war’ at all, and that is a straw man you are raising here now to attack me about. The Occupy Movement is about Free Speech and reclaiming the ‘Commons’. It is about us being able to have the Jobs and Housing we need, and about obtaining real Social Security and so-called ‘homeland security’ for those less unfortunate than others here in the US and elsewhere. It is about the relatively Poor stopping the Rich 1% from robbing us all blind. All these are issues over and beyond the issue of Peace in the world, yet they are interconnected to that issue, too.
You would tell us that the Far Right and Left have unity about these issues? That is hardly the case at all though, and that is why I am fighting now with a bunch of immature and rather witless Right Wingers on this very much of a Left Wing blog who are throwing out insults at me, right and right and Far Right Wing in character.
Why don’t you take your personal hatreds, animosities, and lack of respect for others elsewhere? Is it really just too much for you far extremely conservative folk to tolerate a dissenting opinion or two from your own?
Plus, what ever has made many of you believe that Occupy was exclusively to be a forum for only your agendas? Occupy is an International Movement, and most people outside the US think that you USA Right Wingers are total morons and antithetical to what they are trying to achieve. What do you local, nationalistic Ron Paul campaigning twits have in common with the people of Occupy Nigeria, just for one example of what I am talking about. NOTHING is the real answer.
The attitude that ‘we’ on the Left ripped apart the local Occupy Movement for personal reasons and opinions is false. The fact is that you and the Ron Pauler Republican and Right Wing Libertarian set are in a INTERNATIONAL Movement much more Left than you Right Wing nationalist types want to accommodate yourselves to. It is not us on the Left that has split any unity we all ever had with you, but simply that many of you on the Far Right simply have walked away elsewhere and out of Occupy altogether, to better carry out your Right Wing programs and agendas free of any dissenting people and views.
Neither Brittany nor myself , nor the many others that have left the Occupy Colorado Springs movement have “dropped out of the Occupy movement”. We are still very active in the REAL Occupy movement, and we refuse to support Occupy Colorado Springs simply because you “CLAIM” to be apart of the Occupy movement. We do NOT vote blindly along party lines, and we will NOT sit idly by while you bring such disgrace to the Occupy movement!
As for your false claims of you “being respectful” I find it hard not to laugh! Tony, you have raised a daughter whom I have witnessed scream and yell at a good friend of yours and call him a liar (did I mention she is 15 and was speaking to a guy in his 50’s). I have witnessed your disrespectful daughter yell at soldiers passing by while we were on the corner holding signs. I would really like to know when it is that you were being “respectful”? Was it when you stood up in a Chapel and began loudly making statements such as “U.S. Troops are trailer trash thugs” or when you stood on the corner of Acacia Park holding a sign that said “Troops Kill Kids”? Was it when you yelled in the face of soldiers passing by the park in full uniform? Perhaps it was in Eric’s office when you yelled in his face and said that “he leads people into trouble”? Perhaps you are speaking about one of the many GA’s you have interrupted by yelling and calling names? So again I ask, when was it you were “respectful”? Oh, I get it, that is how you define “respect” and therefore why you claim that we do not meet your definition of “respect”!
Nawww, Raven, when YOU DELETE the OCS Facebook community page, try to dissuade others from participating, and you ally yourself with someone who’s vowed to “kill the Occupy movement in Colorado Springs” I’d say you’ve left it.
Raven, you and the other Tea Bagger/ Ron Paul/ Right Winger Libertarian pre-Occupied set are respectfully being allowed to insult and disrespect me, my daughter, and Eric on this blog, are you not? So what is your complaint actually? Has anybody tried to actually shut you or your pals up? No, nobody actually has.
You and your pro-militarism buddies on the other hand though, routinely threaten to ‘shut up’ the people who you have political disagreements with. You and buddies repeatedly personally attack me in ad hominem manner whenever possible, insinuating that I read porn, have been in prison, and that I am gay, etc. and so on. You deliberately try to use my last name constantly and in irresponsible manner, though it might threaten me with losing my job. You and your friends are thugs, and remind me of the Zeitgeister MJ smokers crowd that originally got the Acacia Park permits, to then try and lord it over the rest of us by claiming to be the Occupy Movement rulering class. Those were folk with a Right Wing mindset much like your own, who repeatedly called the cops on fellow Occupiers to have them arrested (in secret), and who repeatedly tried to claim that the cops were exactly the same as the rest of us, supposedly being 99%ers all like ourselves, according to them.
In fact, just a week ago we still had a Right Wing Occupy type much as your own, arguing with us in GA that cops are supposedly great Occupiers, and are great team members INSIDE Occupy! What a crock of pig poop though!
YES, you want us to Totally endorse ALL US troops, including those who are pro-wars of occupation and aggression, and you go completely zonkers because we don’t go along with that. You even repeatedly threaten us with physical violence, because in your MADE in the USA Right Wing heart, you are more a thug than being like any devout Muslim.
Live your life full of contradictions for all I care, Raven. But a pro-War US citizen who refuses to say that US troops do kill innocents in their wars of aggression in foreign lands is not in any way representative of the Occupy Movement. And nor all your Libertarian Republican Ron Paul? USA Hooray pushing friends much representative of the International Occupy Movement either.
Yes- US Troops do Kill Kids. How stupid and asinine to say otherwise as you want us to, Raven. Listening to one of your US soldier buddies say that he would shoot children at the drop of a hat, and only ask questions (if even that???) later at an Occupy General Assembly meeting cleared up the issues all around. You and your Right Winger buddies are not members of International Occupy, but of the Tea Bagger Party instead. Go find where they meet, Silly One.
I do have a clue whats going on in the world, and i never left occupy i was with occupy army, and occupy marines. still am i left ocs because of the lack or respect you and eric started to show tony. soldiers do now kill babies tony if they do why do so many try to save children while over seas tony. worry about majority of soldiers pride thier work. i am proud to call myself an army wife, proud of my husband. and yes i can be antiwar but still pro military. to hear my great grandfather who is dead by the way who i was very close to by the way fought for no reason in ww2 from eric was disrespectful to me and the dead. but you know what its ok i am army strong. hows your ocs thing workin out for anyways i am hearing its dead. if you hate the troops that bad take pfc mannings pictures, he is still a soldier of the united states army. you should hate him to.
I don’t hate the US troops, Brittany. I just hate what they do. And YES, they do kill children.
If soldiers kill children, wouldnt my daughter be dead. I mean she is a baby she is always running around soldiers, I mean if all they kill children wouldnt they have a flash back and she would be dead. Soldiers love children number one. Number two dont judge the soldiers or military lifestyle until you have lived it tony. until you have served like everyone else.
Oh yeah and tony dont forget the americans that are not soldiers, who kill and torture children all the time. on home soil.
Brittany, I rather think that the children that the US soldiers are now killing speak Pashto or Arabic, not English.
just saying soldiers have flashbacks and the training is pretty mind set if they kill children my daughter would be dead by now american or afghani some on in the company or on post would target her all i have seen from soldiers and vetsalike is love towards all children what about the woman here in the u.s who locked her child up for 8 yrs and raped and tortured her was she in the right? if your going to target people who kill babies target them all not just a few soldiers who do.
I think we should NOT EVER target individuals (like your soldier husband, for example) at all, but rather instead target the government policies that lead to the killing of children, sometimes intentionally and many times not. However, just because Barack might be a real sweetheart at home with his own kids, does NOT mean that his government policies, which he does sign personally into action and ‘law’, are not targeting other people’s children, Brittany. In fact, I find that his use of drones deliberately targets many children around political target also targeted for being murdered, and Barack knows damn well that this is true. So do the Republicans who also support his US government terrorist militarism as well.
Number one tony i dont vote for presidents, nor do i toast to them at military balls. The use of drones is used to locate the eneny target it is also used to look where soldiers cant see, if there is children in the area a drone will spot the children and report that to the foot troops. I am happy the drone unit is coming here.
Use of drones by US military forces have repeatedly led to innocent children being killed, as is very much documented by now. See http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/08/11/more-than-160-children-killed-in-us-strikes/
and also http://www.salon.com/2011/08/12/pakistan_drones_children/
Brittany, you seem to be in total denial about what exactly all this US war making actually does to often very much innocent people including children. Stop concentrating so much on trying to defend your own husband from totally non existent personal attacks on him and start thinking some about what warfare actually is all about? If you love your husband you will encourage him to get out of the military for his own good, as well as the good of others.
BTW, I personally have only the best wishes for you and your loved ones and in no way hope any harm comes to you and the ones you love.
Number one that is a CIA drone not a U.S. army or air force drone take that up with the CIA, encourge my husband to get out. I want my husband to stay in, Until you have been to war and lived the military live style you will never understand. We make shitty pay, and even as a wife his orders are my orders. Just like he has to be ready to leave at the drop of a hat I have to be ready to be fully independent when that phone rings. I come from a long line of soldiers, I almost became one myself. It is not done for money, or glory, the true united states soldier goes it for honor, and tradition. In mine in my husbands case our family history traces back a long time for armed services. As tradtion states someone else takes the duty. My great great grandfather fought in ww1 for the spanish, my great grandpa fought in ww2 for the americans, my grandpa served in germany for vietnam, my father was in the original gulf war, and my husband has served in afghanistan, jeremys line is very similar, with cousins ranging from marines to air force. Not to mention the women in our family who have done thier part. until you have served in any of these wars, truly have been there on the battle ground, you have no room to talk. My great grandfather on my grandmothers side still wont talk about what he has seen in germany and korea. My great grandmother still wont talk about life in paris. My other great grandma all she will say is how she had to hide from russians in haystacks during ww2. It is a hard thing for people to deal with is war, I understand that I understand its hard for civilians and soldiers alike. I am just as much of soldier as jeremy. When i know how to put a uniform together and pack things for a deployment and have the same stress and emotions I cannot show makes me just as much of soldier as him. For anyone to bad mouth jeremys brothers and sisters, along with my fellow military family will not be stood for. Just remember jeremy is loyal, and honorable, and i could not be prouder to call him my husband. because he is brave enough to fight no matter what for people like you, people like you to put down. Just remember when a soldier takes an oath, the first oath he takes is to defend the constitution. You know they one you live by. The one that gives you this wonderful right to say what you want where you want.
You and Jeremy don’t believe in the US constitutional that allows us supposedly the right to be able to express one’s opinion freely in this country though, Brittany. That’s the reason you are making threats like this one you just made against us….
‘For anyone to bad mouth jeremys brothers and sisters, along with my fellow military family will not be stood for.’
You think that you and Jeremy have the right to threaten people for expressing their own political opinions when they are simply different ones than your own. So stop dressing that sentiment up in the US flag because you and Jeremy simply do not represent the opinions of the entire group of people who are themselves in the military like your husband.
PLUS, you personally definitely do not have the right to threaten any civilians of this country with violence just because they have contrary beliefs to your own. Doing that is against the Law and you are now borderline breaking the law by making this rather thinly veiled threats to do personal harm to others. Do you understand that?
Although I do not like the US military very much at all as an institution, I do not hate those who are soldiers in it. And personally, I am beginning to think that you and Jeremy with your Hate Speech on display are approaching being as much a huge embarrassment to the US armed forces as those creepy US soldiers who tortured POWs at Abu Ghraib were. You and the others in your grouping need to desist in making threats to do harm to people.
I meant not stood for meaning I will defend them, say what you want tony your the one who is not educated on things. Not me your the one who tries to defend your argument about drones with CIA drones iits cool though tony go burn bibles at gate 1 of carson, let me know when you do that so I can stand inside post and laugh at how stupid you are.
Learn how to read and write, why don’t you, Brittany? And maybe if your family had spent less time in the military and more time at school you would not be as under educated and semi-literate as you are today… Please turn some of that hatred for others into actually getting an education. It’s never too late to do that for yourself.
sorry i was typing from my blackberry, maybe if you were not to busy brainwashing your daughter to hate soldiers she would have a normal high school life. just a thought. i am serious about the bible burning though let me know when that is gonna go down just so i can make sure i am inside carson, and can laugh when the mps arrest you. like always though you wont do it all you and eric do is talk. when it comes to showing action you guys wont do it.
Damn Tony you wont burn bibles….You wont call me a baby killer to my face….All you do is talk…and you know what Tony…I dont flying fuck what you or anyone else says.. The fact is im doing what i think is right…Be anti war all you want be anti military all you want the truth of the matter is you wouldn’t be able to say any of this if not for me and my brothers and sisters in the armed forces…so go ahead tony do what the Taliban do and brainwash your daughter…throw me and others in the military in a bad light…because in the end I have the last laugh…know why? Because again i defend your right to freedom of speech…lol…case closed…lol
correction ” I dont give a flying fuck” Damn do you smell burnt toast tony? Because i think you just got burned lol