Could there be some wisdom to that internet adage? Maybe you find it amusing, and easy as shooting fish in a barrel, but this goading of the Israeli PR hacks is not pretty. We are being visited by organized spin- spammers, who are flooding the comments with their marching-order talking-points. And there’s a lot to spin: criminal military acts, war crimes, a deliberate program of genocide, and Israeli leaders continuously voicing aloud their outrageous racist intent, confident that their media PR machine in the US will run interference.
Maybe we should have these visitors register as foreign lobbyists. Maybe we have to create a special comment section for double speak. But clearly there’s no beating them at this game. They’re paid. Their job is to keep us occupied.
If our strategy is to draw down THEIR resources, let’s find a forum on their turf to sully with such base inarticulate debate. Why muddy this site with their fake-truth, diversionary “facts?”
This is no Zionist conspiracy. It’s an organized PR campaign, financed by US aid to Israel, and it comprises Holocaust Remembrance, preemptive “anti-defamation” rules, a convenient accusatory “Anti-Semitism” panic button, powerful lobby groups, and a security service propaganda arm. What kind of legitimate argument needs to make its “denial” illegal?!
I know it’s quite amusing to see them scramble all these half-assed arguments, but it makes for dreadful reading. Let’s concentrate on posts, and outcry, and ignore the trolls.
There’s a lot to decry, the damning evidence in Gaza is simply dripping off Israel’s bloody hands. Let the IDF spam, let them direct readers to their propaganda sites. It doesn’t matter. Their role as apologists and legal wranglers for Israel’s illegal conquest and ethnic cleansing of the Holy Land becomes clearer enough, the more they open their false mouths. They will leave an electronic trail with which they will fashion their own noose.
Correcting errors and addressing misrepresentations is not trolling. In your piece, you state that Israel has “a deliberate program of genocide,” yet you provide no concrete or credible evidence.
Under international law, “genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”
No effort is underway to wipe out Arab populations inside Israel, as well as within bordering areas. No genocide is underway.
The trolls have gone over their talking points ad infinitum like good robots are programmed to do, and it’s become tedious. I say ban the whole lot of them from commenting here further.
I would say sell more advertising but I think the troll activity is probably going to show up as “bots” or something similar.
“I know it’s quite amusing to see them scramble all these half-assed arguments, but it makes for dreadful reading. Let’s concentrate on posts, and outcry, and ignore the trolls.”
Actually, the “pro-Zionist” posts are the most interesting to read. At least they provide information from credible, third-party sources. The “anti-Zionist” posts are pretty much composed of juvenile insults, emotional rants and assertions and allegations not backed up by objective source material. Based on the Wall St. Journal article, the “quote” attributed to Ariel Sharon on this site about “We, the Jews, control America”, is clearly fabricated. The notion that Sharon would be sitting among other Jews and specify that “we” are Jews is laughable. The statement attributed to Ben Gurion about how he wouldn’t do business with Israel were he not Israeli is also obviously invented by someone with a fanciful imagination. The credibility of those alleged statements is reflected in the fact that no reputable media sources have written about them. None.
Marie said: “The trolls have gone over their talking points ad infinitum like good robots are programmed to do, and it’s become tedious. I say ban the whole lot of them from commenting here further.”
I vote to ban YOU, since your contribution to an enlightened and informed discussion is nil.
“Discussion” with automatons isn’t possible! Robots don’t vote! Buh-bye!
Oh, wait, I forgot troll protocol.
Andrew said: “I vote to ban YOU, since your contribution to an enlightened and informed discussion is nil.”
“Discussion” with automatons isn’t possible! Robots don’t vote! Buh-bye!
Marie,
Take some time to examine the arguments and counterarguments. Examine some of the links that have been provided and sources that have been cited. Consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, those countering the pro-forma anti-Israel rants are correct.
And, on the issue of suppressing dissenting views, reflect on the following passage from John Stuart Mill’s On Liberty:
There is the greatest difference between presuming an opinion to be true, because, with every opportunity for contesting it, it has not been refuted, and assuming its truth for the purpose of not permitting its refutation. Complete liberty of contradicting and disproving our opinion, is the very condition which justifies us in assuming its truth for purposes of action; and on no other terms can a being with human faculties have any rational assurance of being right.
Free speech or no speech. That essentially is the issue. The former can be educational. The latter will be sterile where only the “correct” opinion prevails by default.
Have a good evening.
“Oh, wait, I forgot troll protocol”
Not sure what qualifies me as a troll in your mind, but, I’ll wear that badge with honor. Having spent quite some time in the ME on behalf both of Israelis and Palestinians, most recently, helping raise the funds to purchase the greenhouses in Gaza, and knowing many people of a variety of backrounds, I can say with a certain degree of assurance that the Arab Israeli conflict is not black and white, as seemingly portrayed here and elsewhere. There is not one set of good guys and one of bad guys. Both Palestinians and Jews have great assets and both have made mistakes. Arguing over who stole what from whom and who lived wherever first is a moot point now. The fact is BOTH the Jews and Palestinians have historical ties to Palestine. Both have their own land now and it is up to them to live in peace and quiet.
Trolls, your arguments are not enlightening, they’ve been repeated over and over again, why should we keep allowing you to post them?
You have amply shown your fear that your position of Pro-Invasion, Pro-Isolate, Starve, Shoot-up and Demonize the people of the Gaza Ghetto might not be seen as “self defense” and your posts about the Good, Noble and Righteous IDF and Mossad Terrorists can be found on any site on the internet which the maintainers thereof dared say different.
The notion that the Palestinian Untermenschen who your Master Race despises so much are actually also the descendants of Israel is not new and is now being proven by genetic science.
As well as by both Hebrew and Christian scripture, the SAME scriptures which provide the rationale for the existence of the modern State of Israel.
Judah is NOT the entire nation or tribe of Israel.
Your racist comments about the Palestinians to the contrary.
It’s too bad you don’t have the emotional or moral courage to admit that, but it is the truth.
If you want to publish nothing but “Israel is always Right” propaganda you’re quite welcome to buy your own damned websites. GoDaddy can help you set one up, Yahoo offers Webhosting for a small price,
You can buy a .com or .org name for 10 years for under a hundred bucks American.
Rather than spewing your hatred all over the websites of Other People, who, unlike YOU, paid for the websites and the webhosting.
In order to stifle the voices of anybody who doesn’t agree with YOU.
It’s very close to a Denial Of Service attack, which I’m not sure you’re aware of this, but D.O.S. attacks are THEFT.
They take away something of very intrinsic value, the access to the website Paid For by the people to whom you are denying access.
It’s also called “flooding”.
It’s also called “Spam” even if the only thing you’re selling is your hatred of the Palestinian people, or your hatred of anybody who doesn’t join you in condemning Children to death.
But the part that’s really against the laws of God and Man is the THEFT.
I suppose if you’re not going to be ashamed or feel guilt over killing BABIES or supporting those who do, you probably aren’t going to feel any shame over Theft either.
Jonah,
When the site is polluted with such reprehensible statements as “The notion that the Palestinian Untermenschen who your Master Race despises…,” among other hateful statements e.g., those that refer to Israel as a Nazi state and accuse it of preparing a “Final Solution,” ad nauseum, those statements should be contested good persons. Correcting them is not spam.
Furthermore, the only ones who have invoked “racial supremacy” are those who have been trying to demonize Israel. None of the responses aimed at correcting the anti-Israel statements has cited “racial supremacy” as a rationale. To do so would be illegitimate. Both peoples share historical legitimacy in the region.
Ultimately, any settlement of the historic dispute will have to accommodate both their needs. But to get such an agreement, terrorist activity by such groups as Hamas will have to end. Moreover, Hamas will have to abandon its pursuit of Israel’s elimination, as well as its rejection of compromise and peace initiatives.
For those who are unfamiliar with it, the Hamas Charter declares:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that.
In other words, Hamas rejects Israel’s right to exist and it rejects any compromises that would permit Israel to survive.
Hamas’s Charter also states:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
In short, Hamas rejects negotiated solutions. It is unyielding in its pursuit of Israel’s elimination.
So long as Hamas maintains those positions, Hamas will remain an insurmountable obstacle to peace. Unless Hamas is dramatically weakened and cast aside (preferably by Gaza’s residents), there will be limits to how far a peace process can advance.
Hamas cares little for the interests of Gaza’s residents. It cares largely about maintaining its grip on power and continuing its pursuit of Israel’s elimination. Not surprisingly, Hamas stole humanitarian aid intended for Gaza’s suffering residents. Today, Haaretz reported:
A United Nation spokesman on Wednesday accused Hamas police in Gaza Strip of seizing thousands of blankets and food parcels meant for needy residents.
Spokesman Christopher Gunness said Hamas police raided a UN warehouse in Gaza City late Tuesday, snatching 3,500 blankets and over 400 food parcels.
The aid is especially vital now because Gazans are facing hardship after Israel’s three-week military offensive against Hamas, which left thousands homeless.
Without the so-called “spam,” I highly doubt that the nature of Hamas’ Charter or Hamas’ theft of humanitarian aid would be mentioned here. Yet, the Hamas Charter and Hamas’ actions provide important insight into understanding the dynamics of the historic Palestinian-Israeli dispute.
Jonah The All-Knowing: “You have amply shown your fear that your position of Pro-Invasion, Pro-Isolate, Starve, Shoot-up and Demonize the people of the Gaza Ghetto”
Hey, Mr. Know-It-All, have you even been to Gaza, or do you just get all your information from the Internet while living at home with your parents? You are clueless about what is going on there. You are ignorant about Hamas pilfering humanitarian aid that Israel is allowing in, while Hamas continues to fire rockets back into Israel, and then selling the food and medicine. What other nation allows humanitarian aid into the very country waging war on it? You are unaware that Hamas taunts Israel into war for their own agenda, not caring one iota about the suffering that ensues. You are clueless about Hamas’s human shielding and infiltrating civilians’ homes. You are blind to Hamas and the rest of the Arab world using the Palestinians as pawns in order to keep the heat on Israel and not on their own repressive regimes. You are clueless about Hamas’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians, taking anyone they even just suspect of wrongdoing and executing them w/out a trial. I worked in Gaza on behalf of the Palestinians to keep 400 greenhouses for them,which would have provided fruits and vegetables for them to sustain themselves, but, alas, Hamas looted them. So, don’t give me your self-righteous indignation from your little perch in Colorado because the amount of correct information you have on the situation is less than nothing. I think your mommy is calling you for breakfast.
Jonah The All-Knowing: “It’s very close to a Denial Of Service attack, which I’m not sure you’re aware of this, but D.O.S. attacks are THEFT.”
Posting false and defamatory statements about Ariel Sharon is libelous.
listen you mumza motherfuckers- why don’t you just go and sit shiva for the ideals that have died in israel- that would be a mitzvah
Andy,
The issues some of us have raised are genuine issues. They include, but are not limited to:
– A quote that is falsely-attributed to Ariel Sharon
– Accusations of Israeli genocide
– Comparisons of Israel with Nazi Germany
– Claims that Israel is preparing a “Final Solution”
The quote is a fabrication. Those other statements have no basis in fact. That some have objected to them should not be too surprising.
The honorable thing would be to pull the false Sharon quote and for others to be more careful to avoid making sweeping generalizations that have no merit. One can disagree with Israel’s policies without one’s resorting to baseless claims of genocide or a “Final Solution,” and without terming Israel a “Nazi” state. That is not an unreasonable expectation.
Andrew,
You are on the mark.
It appears that those who have been posting the harshest anti-Israel commentary here have little understanding of the Middle East and its actors. What they seem to miss is that a fundamentalist terrorist organization such as Hamas is not the equivalent of a moderate secular political movement. Hamas anchors its charter in the name of religion so as to maintain a firewall against compromise. Its Charter makes clear that Hamas seeks Israel’s destruction and opposes peace initiatives. Its Charter declares that compromise on those principles is an abuse against religion.
For those here who are unfamiliar with the nature of the Hamas terrorist organization, a clip showing some of the statements of that terrorist organization’s leaders can be found at:
http://www.memritv.org/video.html
Although things have improved with the Egypt-Israel and Jordan-Israel peace agreements, many of the region’s fundamentals remain similar to those described by Abba Eban before the UN General Assembly on November 1, 1956. He told that body, “…subjected to savage and relentless hostility, exposed to penetrations, raids and assaults by day and by night, suffering constant toll of life amongst its citizenry, …Israel alone amongst the nations faces a battle for its security anew with every rising dawn and with every approaching nightfall. In a country of small area and intricate configuration, the proximity of enemy guns is a constant and haunting theme.”
A similar intolerable situation made Operation Cast Lead necessary. Unfortunately, none of Israel’s harshest critics make any effort to direct responsibility to Hamas and the other terrorist organizations responsible for perpetuating the violence. That they ignore the actions of the terrorist groups on a website that contains many messages that take a more pacifist bent is all the more remarkable.
Trolls with trust funds have invaded Not My Tribe. Make them go away.
Marie,
It is somewhat disappointing that you dismiss those who have sincere and genuine concerns about some of the recently published content at Not My Tribe as “trolls.” If you applied the same fair-minded approach that you do in writing your blogged articles–and it is a nice blog with a rich variety of articles–you would understand that those who have raised concerns about the content are not seeking merely to troll the site. Aside from the objectionable content, Not My Tribe offers a useful service in disseminating views from a particular perspective.
If trolling had been the purpose, there would be no reason to take time to provide sources for the posted corrections i.e., Library of Congress’s Country Studies, UNSCOP, the Hamas Charter, references from international law, etc.
Trolls, Oh My!
Tony Logan,
If anything, your recent responses amount to trolling.