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Who said Israel is an Apartheid State?

Hendrik Frensch Verwoerd“Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state.” …Who said this? The ANSWER
 
Further Hendrik Frensch Verwoerd, the Architect of Apartheid, said “…a colonial racist mentality which rationalised the genocide of the indigenous peoples of the Americas and Australasia, in Africa from Namibia to the Congo and elsewhere, most clearly has its parallels in Palestine.”

For more info about The Architect of Apartheid

19 thoughts on “Who said Israel is an Apartheid State?

  1. In the introduction to Pogrund’s comments, the website pontificates that

    ‘By way of clarification, the Israeli Law of Return does not use a religious criterion to decide who is of the Jewish nationality. The Law of Return allows anyone who had one Jewish grandparent to return to Israel as a Jew. This creates a conflict with the orthodox Jewish religious establishment, who use the halachic religious criterion of descent from a Jewish mother.’

    Who cares, ‘Dan’? Both definitions would determine who is considered Jewish and are simply using a description of Jewishness to then discriminate with.

    Do you think that Arabs care one way or the other, ‘Dan’? I mean, just look at the Jewish State flag that waves on this link you give us! That’s enough to establish that one group is considered superior in the law and another group is considered to have lesser rights before Jewish determined law. It is an Apartheid society then, and not a democratic one as you assert.

    Your own arguments and links prove the point that the Jewish State is an Apartheid State! How could it be otherwise when one group of people are simply designated (by themselves) as the official managers and identifiers of the who, what, and why of the ‘State’?

  2. The article dismissing Israel as an apartheid state speaks for itself and far more insightfully than I could, given the author’s opposition to apartheid while in South Africa.

  3. I found this commentary you sent us to be frankly quite ridiculous, ‘Dan’. Let’s look at a portion of it and see why that is so, shall we?

    ‘Arabs are a substantial minority, about 20 per cent of the population. In theory they have full citizenship rights.’

    No they don’t. In both theory and practice they don’t even have the right to live in their own land. That is hardly ‘full citizenship rights’ with Jewish citizens, who have the right to come from totally different lands and be integrated into the Jewish State..

    ‘In practice they suffer extensive discrimination, ranging from denial of land use, diminished job opportunities and lesser social benefits, to reports of a family ordered off a beach and children evicted from a park. Only some 5,05 per cent of the 55 500 civil servants are Arabs. Arab villages are often under-funded and suffer from poor services and roads. Schools receive smaller amounts of government revenue, so their facilities are poorer.’

    True. But this is the smaller part of the discrimination really , isn’t it? But OH!, the writer pretended to miss out on that major part of the discrimination entirely, now didn’t he? One must be secure in the fact that you are even considered a citizen in your own land FIRST? Arabs do not have that feeling, since the country’s government describes itself as not being a multi- cultural state, but merely a Homeland for Jewish people others can get lost. That is seen on the flag itself which certainly states the supremacy of one ethnic group over the other in most prominent manner!

    ‘None of this is acceptable and especially in a state that presents itself as the only democracy in the Middle East.’

    A bullshit claim for a country that describes itself as being a Homeland for only one people. No democracy here.

    ‘But is it comparable with pre-1994 South Africa?’

    No, it is worse in some ways, and different in others.

    ‘Under apartheid, remember, no detail of life was immune to discrimination by law. Skin colour determined every single person’s life, literally from birth until death: where you were born, where you went to school, what job you had, which bus you used, what park bench you sat on and in which cemetery you were buried.’

    And in Israel, the religion you have determined for you by Jewish officials at birth, rather than skin color, is the determinant of whether you are discriminated in favor of, or in favor against. It determines if you are walled in, or whether you are of that group that walls off others. It determines all your rights or lack of them.

    ‘In Israel, discrimination occurs despite equality in law;’

    Bullshit, discrimination in Israel occurs precisely due to inequalities before the law, same as under White South African Apartheid.

    ‘it is extensive, it is buttressed by custom, but it is not remotely comparable with the South African panoply of discrimination enforced by parliamentary legislation. The difference is fundamental.’

    But we just saw that despite some differences, the similarity is fundamental. Status as Jew or not, just like color status was used, determines the discrimination.

    ‘The Israeli situation can perhaps be better likened to the United States: blacks enjoyed rights under the Constitution but the rights were not enforced for decades; it took the Supreme Court’s historic judgement in Brown vs Board of Education in 1954 to begin the process of applying the law.’

    American Blacks never feared being expelled from the land of their births (locally YES, nationally NO). But that is exactly what Palestinians have faced. Many are quite simply living outside the borders of their own land of birth. They were simply thrown outside the ‘nation’ and not just locally off their lands. The exact same thing occurred in South Africa as many were forced into Bantustans outside the ‘nation’ by White South Africans.

    ‘The difference between the current Israeli situation and apartheid South Africa is emphasised at a very human level: Jewish and Arab babies are born in the same delivery room, with the same facilities, attended by the same doctors and nurses, with the mothers recovering in adjoining beds in a ward. Two years ago I had major surgery in a Jerusalem hospital: the surgeon was Jewish, the anaesthetist was Arab, the doctors and nurses who looked after me were Jews and Arabs. Jews and Arabs share meals in restaurants and travel on the same trains, buses and taxis, and visit each other’s homes.’

    Many expelled Palestinians do not participate in this supposedly equal society that the author fantasizes exists. They live lives of poverty and even hunger as refugees forced out of the ‘nation’. Just because the author finds them to be invisible to his eyes does not change the basic facts of this.

    ‘Could any of this possibly have happened under apartheid? Of course not.’

    Look. The 2 societies have similarities between them but there are some differences between them, too. The biggest difference was simply that the White South Africans never were able to become a majority population within their ‘nation’ official borders the Whites controlled back then, unlike Palestine’s now Jewish dominated and controlled inside the Jewish run ‘nation’ state.

    Perhaps if White South Africans had not gotten so greedy and instead had walled themselves into a smaller enclave away and off from the indigenous population, while expelling the majority of Natives to the outsides, White South African Apartheid would have had a much longer life span than the Jewish Apartheid State currently is having?

  4. Among the freedoms and rights that non-Jews and Jews, Arabs, Christians and Muslims, alike, enjoy as part of the democracy in Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, such as right to vote, right to run for public office, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of protest, the right to congregate, the right to privacy, freedom of religion, the right to a trial by a jury of one’s peers, the right to appeal, is the specific right of free movement. Sooo, anyone not happy living in Israel is free to move to any of the 22 Arab countries in the region. Funny thing, you don’t see too many people doing this.

  5. Maybe it has to do with the same reason that I, as a native born American, do not take up the offer of Right Wing twits like yourself, ‘Dan’, to ‘Leave America’? Many of these a-holes that tell me to get out of my own country throw in an offer to buy me the ticket, too, which is something that your software system designer, the Israeli military, over at their ‘Internet Megaphone’ does for natives of Palestine, ‘Dan’. Or they blast them away, snipe at them, bulldoze their homes down, starve them, deny them medical care, and so on.

  6. “Or they blast them away, snipe at them, bulldoze their homes down, starve them, deny them medical care, and so on.”

    That’s what the Egyptians do.

  7. Dan, two wrongs do not make a right. Just because the Egyptians also do it, does not make it right for Israel, that claims to be a nation of rights and democracy, to do the same thing. Many Palestinians I know identify as Palestinians, and have as much contempt for their neighboring Arabs as they have for their colonial masters (Israel). They are strategic allies with Egypt, Jordan and the like, but they recognize that thos estates, just like Israel, are callous opportunistic states, bent on using the Palestinians as a football to advance their interests in the international arena.

  8. “Dan, two wrongs do not make a right. Just because the Egyptians also do it, does not make it right for Israel, that claims to be a nation of rights and democracy, to do the same thing.”

    The same what? The Arabs launched three wars against Israel. The Arabs boasted the sand of the desert would be saturated with Jewish blood. The Palestinians strapped on bomb belts to kill Jews. The Palestinian governments have charters openly vowing annihilation of Israel and genocide of Jews. Were it not for the ’67 war, provoked by the Arabs, Israel would not be in the West Bank. Israel is a democracy, however, that doesn’t absolve the Arabs of aggression toward Israelis nor does it mean Israel doesn’t have the right to fully defend itself. Many people are uncomfortable with a muscular Jewish state that doesn’t allow its enemies to step all over it. My advice is: Get used to it.

  9. “A muscular Jewish bully enabled by his rich Uncle Samuel. Dan, you remind me of William Kennedy Smith.”

    If Israel weren’t surrounded by 350 million enemies, it would not need a rich uncle Sam. As for Israel being a bully, Israel didn’t launch three wars against its neighbors nor have Israelis strapped bomb belts on to themselves and to their children to blow up Palestinians.

  10. No. The Jewish State prefers to use cluster bombs, land mines, DIME munitions, and White Phosphorus instead.

  11. “No. The Jewish State prefers to use cluster bombs, land mines, DIME munitions, and White Phosphorus instead.”

    So what? If Hamas didn’t start a war with Israel, such munitions would not be deployed. You focus too much on the effects of war and not enough on the causes.

  12. “In both theory and practice they don’t even have the right to live in their own land. That is hardly ‘full citizenship rights’ with Jewish citizens, who have the right to come from totally different lands and be integrated into the Jewish State.. ”

    Wrong. In theory and in practice, Arab citizens of Israel are endowed with the same rights and freedoms as Jewish citizens. The 1.5 million Israeli Arabs came from “totally different lands”, too, such as Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Morocco, Algeria, etc. etc.

    “One must be secure in the fact that you are even considered a citizen in your own land FIRST? Arabs do not have that feeling, since the country’s government describes itself as not being a multi- cultural state, but merely a Homeland for Jewish people others can get lost. ”

    Wrong, again. Read Israel’s Declaration of Independence, which explicitly states that every citizen, irrespective of race, religion, national origin, etc., is accorded equal rights. Also read the Faisal–Weizmann Agreement, which stipulated that the Jews and the Arabs would work and live together in peace.

    “That is seen on the flag itself which certainly states the supremacy of one ethnic group over the other in most prominent manner! ”

    You mean, like every “Islamic Republic’s” flags?

    “A bullshit claim for a country that describes itself as being a Homeland for only one people. No democracy here.”

    Wrong, again. Every people have a homeland, so Israel is no different. Israel is a full democracy, with free elections in which all citizens, including Arabs, have the right to vote. The Knesset has several Arab legislators. Any Arab unhappy living in Israel can leave and move to Gaza or the 22 Arab states in the region, or anywhere else of their choosing.

    “And in Israel, the religion you have determined for you by Jewish officials at birth, rather than skin color, is the determinant of whether you are discriminated in favor of, or in favor against. It determines if you are walled in, or whether you are of that group that walls off others. It determines all your rights or lack of them.”

    Wrong, again. Israel has very strict laws against discrimination. Any aggrieved party, of any religious or ethnic backround, has access to the Israeli judicial system to seek redress.

    “Bullshit, discrimination in Israel occurs precisely due to inequalities before the law, same as under White South African Apartheid.”

    Wrong, again. Every country has discrimination. That is the nature of certain people. However, discrimination in Israel is illegal. Unlike “White South African Apartheid”, the Israeli High Court has an Arab judge.

    “American Blacks never feared being expelled from the land of their births (locally YES, nationally NO). But that is exactly what Palestinians have faced. ”

    Wrong, again. 1.5 million Arabs and Palestinians live in Israel. None has been expelled merely for their ethinc heritage.

    “Many are quite simply living outside the borders of their own land of birth. ”

    Wrong, again. Virtually all Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank were born in those territories.

    “They were simply thrown outside the ‘nation’ and not just locally off their lands.”

    Wrong, again. Those living in Gaza and the West Bank are second, third and fourth generation residents of Gaza and the West Bank.

    “Many expelled Palestinians do not participate in this supposedly equal society that the author fantasizes exists. They live lives of poverty and even hunger as refugees forced out of the ‘nation’. Just because the author finds them to be invisible to his eyes does not change the basic facts of this. ”

    Wrong, again. Palestinians live lives of poverty because of corrupt leadership that has diverted billions of dollars in foreign aid into their own accounrts. Forbes magazine has estimated Arafat’s wealth in the hundreds of millions. In actuality, Palestinians receive more foreign aid per capita than any other group. In the interest of historical accuracy, most Palestinians weren’t expelled, they fled Israel of their own volition during the 1948 war.

    “Look. The 2 societies have similarities between them but there are some differences between them, too. The biggest difference was simply that the White South Africans never were able to become a majority population within their ‘nation’ official borders the Whites controlled back then, unlike Palestine’s now Jewish dominated and controlled inside the Jewish run ‘nation’ state.”

    Wrong, again. Palestinians in Israel are not oppressed and live quite comfortable lives. In fact, Arab Israelis live much better lives than Jewish Israelis. Arabic is a national language and Arabs have the right to vote and to own land, which blacks in S. Africa were denied.

    “Perhaps if White South Africans had not gotten so greedy and instead had walled themselves into a smaller enclave away and off from the indigenous population, while expelling the majority of Natives to the outsides, White South African Apartheid would have had a much longer life span than the Jewish Apartheid State currently is having? ”

    Wrong, again. The “wall” in Israel is a chain-link fence, not a wall. It was constructed in response to the second Palestinian intifada that sent into Israel swarms of suicide bombers and car bombers killing several hundred Israelis, both Jewish and non-Jewish. The fence has virtually eliminated suicide and car bombing incidents. Prior to the intifada, Israel had an open-door policy with Palestinians, most of whom were employed in Israel and whose businesses traded with Israeli businesses, so, there is no apartheid-like sentiments among Israelis to be separated from Palestinians based on ethnicity.

  13. You can lie over and over and say ‘Wrong Again’ a billion times for all we care and your stuff is hardly worth any reply, Big Lie Machine. Like the crap about a ‘chained fence, not a wall’. Anybody can google a picture of the Israeli wall and not see a chain fence, ‘Dan’. What value do you think all this stupid lying you do actually has?

  14. Your problem is you Google everything on Israel, most of which, if not all, is from biased sources and, thus, inaccurate. About 97% of the partition is, indeed, chain-link, with the remaining 3%, or so, comprised of concrete slabs strategically placed in vulnerable parts where the most suicide bombers had come from. As for my alleged “lies”, I invite you to disprove me if they are lies, instead of responding with ad hominem insults?

  15. “Dan’, you are not on some debate team organized out at Princeton here. I find you to be as repugnant as any other person with sociopathic personality disorder would be and your presence on this blog I would remove if it was fully up to me. So I couldn’t care less if you hand out that tripe about ‘ad hominem insults’ and supposedly being some sort of a victim of my unfairness to you. You are totally insincere, a pompous nitwit, and a defender of the worst abuses by government and military imaginable. In short, you are an asshole and I don’t mind saying it. You are simply resilient against all truth and honesty and the bit about chain fences is just case in point.

  16. ‘Dan’, you are a loathsome and sadistic thug posing yourself off as a representative for people who you want to posit off to us as being perpetual victims. Your posts are what speak for themselves.

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