Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day, when Israeli Jews celebrate the genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians they stole the “land of Israel” from.
Can the world survive the NAZI State of Israel?
Why Israel is bad for the Jews. Not that Israel gives a damn about Jews outside its borders.
How Israel created Hamas.
The hanged Mussolini, didn’t they? UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak told CNN in an interview on Monday that they have enough evidence to try Donald Rumsfeld for war crimes.
40,000 Americans a day are now losing their jobs, and all the GOP can think about is more tax cuts for the filthy-rich.
Demon Democrats. Hope for justice and peace in the Middle East died this morning, as AIPAC puppet and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton declared that Israel has a right to commit genocide if Hamas sends a bottle rocket over the border.
Never forget: Terrorism did not exist in the Middle East until the Zionists introduced it to steal the “land of Israel” from the Palestinians.
‘Never forget: Terrorism did not exist in the Middle East until the Zionists introduced it to steal the “land of Israel” from the Palestinians.’
What hysterical unhistorical idiocy, Thomas. Do you ever think before you write? I guess we are supposed to not know about the Ottoman Empire? Right? What on Earth are you thinking?
NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION”
Still more tripe from you! These stupid comparisons of Zionists with Nazis seem to have no end coming from you. You make a constant virtue out of this sort of drivel, don’t you?
What in the Hell is wrong with you, Thomas? I certainly don’t want others to find me guilty by association from this sort of repetitive insults coming from you on this blog, but unfortunately they will.
If you can’t write without calling Zionists Nazis every two seconds then you really ought to just throw away your pen. You’re not saying anything with this stuff and are just giving ammo to others who want to label any and all anti Zionism as being nothing but anti Semitism. I can’t imagine dumber writing on the subject if I tried. You are a real disservice to the antiwar community by writing as you do. It is not amusing at all.
I am about as anti-Zionist as they come, but I find this Nazi fetish of yours just SICK, SICK, SICK! Grow up! You’re turning our stomachs.
What is so sick about your Nazi baiting is that you now will not
even be honest and decent enough to come out and defend yourself, as you simply haven’t in the past when similar writing by you produced similar negative comments. Stupid…
Tony: If you don’t like it, don’t read it, you arrogant shithead fuck.
Good defense, Thomas. I’m being sarcastic here. You wrote 2 whole sentences with personal insults defending your constant labeling of Israeli Jews as Nazis.
I don’t like your Nazi baiting Jews in this way at all, Bud, and you are going to keep hearing me say it, too. You are a total disgrace! And like I said, I don’t want others to consider me guilty by association with the likes of you, simply since your writing like you do totally stinks and the smell goes out all over the blog.
Must I actually go and give you some A, B, Cs about why the Jews in Israel are in no way similar to the Germans in Nazi Germany? Are you really that simple minded to need just that? If you are, then I ask myself why you are writing material here on this blog? You are a miseducation and not any enlightenment at all if you actually consider Israel to be identical to Nazi Germany.
Sorry, I don’t play your politically correct bullshit games. I call a spade a spade. Too bad you are too ignorant to see Israel for what it is becoming.
By the way, I’m a Jew, you moron, I think I probably know a bit more about the holocaust than you. And the State of Israel. I almost made the mistake of moving there.
As for “being associated with you”, you needn’t worry. I’ve informed Eric that he no longer has my permission to post material from my website here. The last thing I want is to be associated with you.
If you are in fact Jewish, you are one of the most inarticulate and nonsensical Jewish people I have ever met? Instead of calling Israelis Nazis all the time why haven’t you been writing better commentaries explaining why, as a Jewish American, you oppose Zionism? Would that be too coherent for you, so instead you just scream ‘Nazi, Nazi, Nazi! out all the time’?
I expect better than the stuff you write from Jewish comrades, Pal. It has nothing to do with being “PC’, or not?
You say that you know everything about the Holocaust? Really? Is that why you always compare other Jews to Nazis then, all without ever having identified yourself online that I have ever seen, as supposedly being Jewish?
Many Zionist Jews go online and identify themselves as being Arabs, so what is prevent some anti Jewish nut from going online and identifying themselves as supposedly being Jewish? Nothing, right?
Let’s return to some of your writing, Thomas, shall we?
‘‘Never forget: Terrorism did not exist in the Middle East until the Zionists introduced it to steal the “land of Israel” from the Palestinians.’’
What total unGodly bullshit! So you say that Jews brought in terrorism to the Middle East? That sure is grand news to the British, French, and Turks, Mr. Thomas. News to the Armenians, too?
And you claim to be full of knowledge about the Middle East and the Holocaust committed against European Jews? If you are in fact Jewish, as you claim to be, then I think that you are rather a nutcase Jewish person to be calling what was done to the Jews by Germans the total equivalent of what Zionist Jews are doing to the Arabs. It simply is not.
Sure, the treatment of Arabs by Jewish nationalists is brutal, but last I heard they had not slaughtered 6,000,000 of them just to see them die, like the Nazis did? But who am I to say such compared to what you, the noted Jewish expert on the Holocaust, say?
Jews, in your learned opinion, are guilty of everything, even including bringing terrorism to the Middle East? Yes, Sir… What a laughable history lesson you have given us, Thomas. But it’s not really very funny.
Let’s not even look at the British and Turkish history in the Middle East for the moment, but let’s alone look at the French, shall we? The French used terrorism in Vietnam and Algeria but I guess you think that they did not use it in Lebanon post WW1? Only the Jews did that in the Middle East per your opinion, right, Thomas? The evil Jews invented it for that happy region in your learned opinion?
Then where did the Lebanese Maronite Christians get their start as terrorists? Many of them had uniforms modeled on the Brown shirts of Italy, Spain, and Germany… right? But maybe they weren’t really terrorists? Only the Zionist Jews are that in the Middle East if I read you right, Thomas? Please correct us if we are misstating your views?
And let’s not examine Turkey and Armenia yet. I see no Jews there, so therefore no terrorism. The Roman Empire in the Middle East? Well that’s a long time ago, and they had terrorism, I guess? … because there were Jews living back then, and heck… They invented terrorism for the region! But wait! I am wrong. The Jewish people only brought terrorism to the Middle East to steal the land from the Arabs, per you, Thomas… and much later on. No terrorism in the Middle East in Roman times, I guess? Jesus! I am glad for that.
So, Thomas, you are Jewish and almost moved to Israel? Then you discovered that the Jewish Zionists there had ‘introduced’ terrorism to the Middle East?
‘Never forget: Terrorism did not exist in the Middle East until the Zionists introduced it to steal…’
This is a touching story you tell, Thomas. Sadly, it’s just not true. Terrorism was a part of Middle Eastern daily life long before the Zionist Movement was ever born. Almost everybody seems to realize that except you!
And now I will apologize some to you, Thomas.
After reading over and over your comments on this blog that almost always headline with some much alike version of titles like ‘Nazi Israel’ or ‘Zionists are Nazis’ and so on, I got curious to what else you have ever written and where else did you write it at? To get your material here one can simply press on your name below the commentary and it will link to all the other NotMyTribe material of yours previously published. But what were you writing elsewhere?
So I googled and got the link to http://thomasmc.com/
There, on your own terrain, your material looks quite a bit different and is much better balanced out than it has been on this blog, where splices of your commentaries are put online alone, without the same background comments by others that you choose to have on your own blog. I encourage people to go and see your own blog and compare it to your material here. Your own blog gives a much different view of where you are coming from than just this NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION” overplay of rhetoric from you that I began to find offensive.
‘Sorry, I don’t play your politically correct bullshit games. I call a spade a spade. Too bad you are too ignorant to see Israel for what it is becoming.’
Not at all, Thomas. We are in virtual agreement on most of what you post, it is just how sometimes you have expressed it that makes me take offense.
‘By the way, I’m a Jew, you moron, I think I probably know a bit more about the holocaust than you. And the State of Israel. I almost made the mistake of moving there.’
OK, I believe you after seeing your own blog for the first time. I’d actually like to hear more about your almost mistake of moving to Israel. What happened?
‘As for “being associated with you”, you needn’t worry. I’ve informed Eric that he no longer has my permission to post material from my website here. The last thing I want is to be associated with you.’
I would like to ask you to reconsider this? You must understand that I come from a family that is very vulnerable to being labeled antiSemitic (antiJewish) by others. You might want to ask Eric to feed you in a little on what I am talking now, since this is a somewhat private matter.
Personally, I would want notmytribe to put a link to your own blog on a very prominent spot here so that others might get a truer picture of your opinions than I got. I should have gone to your blog before I wrote anything here, but I didn”t and for that I apologize to you. That being said, I still think it is quite easy to leap to some (in this case wrong) conclusions when reading your Nazi tags all the time.
What an utterly sorry misunderstanding, especially since neither of us should be second guessing motives or exuberance of fellow contributers.
There are no poison gas showers, but Israel has made plain its Final Solution for the Palestinians. Depopulation, by all means necessary.
Let´s stop playing thought police.
Mt. Logan, the years on dope and booze have evidently destroyed much of your brain. No terrorism before Israel was established? I guess you missed the part of history involving the Romans’ treatment of the Jews. And, Muslim slaughter of Jews escaped your “extensive” research efforts. And, the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood collaborated with the Nazis apparently escaped you, too. Maybe instead of demonstrating your complete ignorance of history, you could read a few history books and then get back to us. LOL
Tony: If you don’t like it, don’t read it, you arrogant shithead fuck
Jew hater turns on his fellow Jew hater. Can’t you get along in the interest of antiSemitism? LOL
First off, Mary, the part about drugs in my tongue in cheek auto-bio I put here on this blog has to due with my job, where I give drugs non-stop to patients I attend. That is what your beloved American Med Care System has me do in the name of ‘health’. I call myself a drug pusher for that reason and that reason alone. I drink a beer or two from time to time, too. My poor brain!
‘No terrorism before Israel was established? I guess you missed the part of history involving the Romans’ treatment of the Jews.’
Well, like Duh???, Mary. If you had read my comments better instead of immediately engaging in a drive-by shooting on this blog, you would have noticed that that was my exact point to Thomas. State terrorism was practiced by the Romans against the Jews, and that was what did Jesus in, was it not? So it makes no sense for Thomas to have stated that terrorism in the Middle East is something unique to the Zionist ‘Jewish State’.
‘Jew hater turns on his fellow Jew hater.’
Oh, bullshit, Mary so quite contrary. Neither Thomas nor I are ‘Jew haters’ at all. Imagine if somebody like yourself disagreed with some fellow Christian and then began to be called a ‘Christ Hater’ because of not being in total agreement with whoever disagreed with their POV? Wouldn’t you then think the name caller to be a total frigging lunatic? That’s how you come off as being when you label people who don’t agree with you and whom do not support the State Terrorism of Israel to be some how ‘Jew-haters’. LOL…. You come off as being a total frigging lunatic.
You’re not a Jew-hater, merely an “anti-Zionist” LOL. Gimme a break. As for the Nazi Jews, if the Jews were intent on exterminating the Palestinians, they would have done so while having a presence in Gaza, instead of pulling up stakes in Gaza, causing great discord among Israelis and those forced out of Gaza. Furthermore, you don’t see Israel trying to exterminate Palestinians in the West Bank. Israel and West Bank Palestinians are living in relative peace. When you start in with calling Israelis Nazis, you relinquish your part in a civilized, reasonable debate.
‘When you start in with calling Israelis Nazis, you relinquish your part in a civilized, reasonable debate.’
I agree with you, Mary, and that was the exact point I made to Thomas.
‘As for the Nazi Jews, if the Jews were intent on exterminating the Palestinians, they would have done so while having a presence in Gaza, instead of pulling up stakes in Gaza, causing great discord among Israelis and those forced out of Gaza. Furthermore, you don’t see Israel trying to exterminate Palestinians in the West Bank’
I agree with you, Mary. The racist Zionists do not want to eliminate all Palestinian Arabs off the face of the planet, but just want to rob them of their property and be done with it. The Nazis DID WANT to kill off all the world’s Jewish population though, Mary. This is an important distinction between Zionism and Nazism.
So now you can see that I in fact do disagree with calling Israeli Jews NAZIs, as Thomas was doing routinely on this blog. I think it shameful and am still not entirely sure of who he really is, or what his personal motivations are for screaming Nazi, Nazi, Nazi out all the time?
Thomas claims that he is Jewish and it is possibly that he is that and just emotionally over reacting against the racism of the Zionist Jewish community against Palestinians? What do you think, Mary?
Tony, if you want to talk about brutality toward the Palestinians, more Palestinians were slaughtered by Muslims during the Lebanese/Syrian civil war than killed by Israel during the last 60 yrs of Israel’s existence. And, it was Jordan’s King Hussein who killed upwards of 5,000 Palestinians during Balck September. And,for why? Because he was putting down Palestinian organizations mobilizing to establish a national identity. So, when you overlook historical mistreatment of Palestinians by their fellow Arabs and only fixate on “Zionists”, it raises a red flag about your agenda.
I also wonder about your focus on Israel’s occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, a result of a war not initiated by Israel, but no criticism of China’s blatant aggressive occupation of Tibet. Why is that?
Finally, it is the Palestinians who openly vow genocide against the Jews in Israel. Such genocide is taught to their children. So, please don’t tell me about Israeli’s strategy of genocide against the Palestinians.
The Palestinian Guide To Good Parenting
[url=http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hamasnj2.jpg][img=http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4104/hamasnj2.th.jpg][/url]
The Palestinian Guide To Good Parenting
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17707
Mary, your comments are welcome here, but I would ask that you combine them into one post from now on and especially if they are in reply to just one original commentary thread.
As to Jordan’s King Hussein, he did slaughter a huge number of Palestinians but he is dead now so I do not concentrate on criticizing him on this blog. Meanwhile though, there is the Zionist made Gaza slaughter going on.
But since we are on this theme now I might mention to you that probably one of the angriest demonstrations of Palestinians I ever participated in was back when King Hussein arrived in Seattle Washington to hobnob with members of the US military industrial complex (Boeing) there. His security goons were allowed to wave automatic weapons at me and the other Americans who went out to protest his presence in that city. Needless to say, we could only imagine the tortures they were proposing to do to our co-protesters in Arabic and they were talking quite nastily to them (in Arabic) as we demonstrated side by side.
‘Finally, it is the Palestinians who openly vow genocide against the Jews in Israel. Such genocide is taught to their children.’
I hardly think that true. You, if you are indeed Jewish, need to look in the mirror in regards to who wants to push who into the sea? Your ethnic group has all the nuclear weapons and wants the lands they took from the Palestinians PLUS you are in alliance with the biggest arsenal in the world, that is controlled by America, the Christian State. Look in the mirror, Mary. And by the way, I am glad that you are talking to ‘the other side’ now and not just getting it all from worldnetdaily. Good for you!
BTW, Mary, I find it disgraceful that we are actually having to manage some sort of dialog together on a commentary idiotically titled NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION”. After the supposedly Jewish Thomas called me an ‘arrogant shithead fuck’ about my complaint, he just went off running to another locale where he probably will just repeat his screaming out more in this vein.
I find that rather pathetic on his part, and I really do think that it calls into some sort of question whether that he is in fact Jewish? A pretty stupid Jewish person he would be IMO, if in fact he actually is. Certainly he can do better about his anger management control one would think?
If he wants to call Israelis Nazis, then he should be able to defend that point of view. Sadly, he was not. Why not, Thomas? Come on back and talk to us here.
Worldnetdaily is owned by an Arab-American, Joseph Farah. I’m not Jewish, but, is that really relevant? And, for your edification, Judaism is a religion, not an ethinicity. Israel has nuclear weapons because it’s the only real deterrence to another attempt by Arab states to go to war with Israel, as in’48, ’67 and ’73. The difference between Israel having nuclear weapons and, say, Iran having nuclear weapons is Israel has shown itself to own nucelar weapons responsibly, while Iran vocally threatens the world. Your rationale for not referencing King Husseins’slaughter of Palestinians because he’s no long living seems like a convenient pretext, however, such a reference would provide some much-needed context to others reading your posts. One can come away believing that Israel is the sole source of Palestinian suffering. Hussein’s murder of Palestinians, however,pales in comparison to the estimated 100,000-150,000 Palestinians killed by Muslims during the Lebanese/Syrian war from 1975-1990. That’s about 10x more Palestinians killed by Israel over a 60-year period. As for the “Zionist slaughter” of Gaza, I find it truly curious that you say such a thing when you clearly know that the “slaughter” was brought upon by Hamas shelling Israel. Casualties are an unfortunate part of war, however, Israel warned Hamas numerous times to cease firing rockets into Israel and so in ignoring Israel’s pleas, the responsibility for Palestinian casualties falls on the shoulders of Hamas. You have a right to hate Israel, but, you don’t have a right to your own “facts”
Mary, before we go on, I want to express how upset I am at the list owner, Eric, for ever having titled any commentary on this blog the title we are replying to. It is a disgrace IMO, and I might also add that I had expressed my opinion about this type of thing time after time after time, too. So now readers just see a line of NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION” when they arrive to the blog. Makes me sick, Eric.
Now to the nitty gritty of your comments, Mary. I simply can not reference every single issue in every single commentary I make. For example, you brought up the issue of Tibet, and I could have brought up the issue of Kashmir in my reply to you. Before you know it, we don’t know what we are actually talking about if this is how we discuss the issues.
‘Your rationale for not referencing King Husseins’slaughter of Palestinians because he’s no long living seems like a convenient pretext, however, such a reference would provide some much-needed context to others reading your posts.’
Yes, it does,and in fact I may have written some about him before? I also have written a lot here about Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon, which certainly gives much-needed context to the Israeli Jew-Palestinian Arab conflict.
‘One can come away believing that Israel is the sole source of Palestinian suffering.’
NO. Israel is not the center of Palestinian suffering when one factors in the US role in causing suffering all across the Arab World. In fact, it is not even near being the biggest cause of Palestinian suffering, and those folk that think that Israeli Jews are the center of everything evil here are just plain full of it. So once again we find some agreement between the two of us, right, Mary?
‘Hussein’s murder of Palestinians, however,pales in comparison to the estimated 100,000-150,000 Palestinians killed by Muslims during the Lebanese/Syrian war from 1975-1990.’
And since we are going back into history now, the Turks are Muslims and they killed a million PLUS Christian Armenians. So I guess it might be all right if the USA kills a few million Iraqi Muslims, Mary? You be ‘The Decider’?
Forgive the serial post—This is how Palestinians are treated when Israel is not trying to defend herself (Source: http://www.merip.org/mero/mero061807.html)
The Lebanese army responded by cutting off water and electricity to the entirety of Nahr al-Barid, and pounding the camp with tank, artillery and heavy machine gun fire, inflicting heavy damage. Palestinian refugees inside Nahr al-Barid got no warning of an impending assault, and so no opportunity to avoid it, resulting in a humanitarian crisis among the sector of the population least equipped to sustain it. Four days into the bombardment, those Palestinian refugees who were able to leave — over two thirds of the population of 31,000 to 40,000 people — left.
For Palestinians who survived the repeated destruction and siege of their camps during the civil war, the Nahr al-Barid crisis brings back many bad memories. Some of those who fled the Tripoli camp after hostilities began say they have already been displaced five times in their lives.
“Mary, before we go on, I want to express how upset I am at the list owner, Eric, for ever having titled any commentary on this blog the title we are replying to. It is a disgrace IMO, and I might also add that I had expressed my opinion about this type of thing time after time after time, too. So now readers just see a line of NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION” when they arrive to the blog. Makes me sick, Eric.”
I’m not sure if you are sincere since you were sarcastic with another colleague, but, if you are sincere, in this comment and the subsequent sentiments in your post, then, I think you’re being much more responsible and objective than in earlier comments.
No, I am completely sincere in what I just said here, Mary. I got to get off the internet now. Thanks for continuing to write.
Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany on Holocaust Remembrance belies a lack of historical knowledge, failure to understand genocide, and a gross trivialization of the Holocaust.
Under international law, genocide is:
“…any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”
Nothing Israel is doing to defend itself against the naked aggression of terrorist entities such as Hamas even remotely meets the standard. The author of the piece provides no evidence whatsoever prove “intent” much less document acts that would meet the standard. He fails to do so, precisely because such evidence does not exist. His charge is nothing more than an ill-informed emotional outburst.
The problem with this definition for you, Don, is that it is valid and Israel is in fact trying to destroy the greater part of Palestinian identity as a community.
‘Under international law, genocide is: “…any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:’
Many Zionists, in fact, deny that there is a Palestinian community to destroy and just want the world to wrap their victims up into being seen as nothing more than a mere tiny part of the entire Arab community. They have stolen much of their land and property and committed horrible crimes of violence against Palestinians which are ongoing.
Your denial about about this genocide is quite appalling, in fact, and is also unfortunately quite typical of the American mindset, which also justifies its own constant genocides against others, now of course including the Iraqis.
There is one big problem with using the international definition of genocide though, in that it does not give any comparative insight about the size and extent of varying genocides that have happened and are happening around the Planet. So that allows people like yourself to slip and slither away from confronting genocide their own participation in enabling genocide when it does occur. You can always correctly point out that the genocide being committed by Israeli Jews or other groups that you support against Palestinians and other national groupings (Iraqis, say) are of far smaller scope than what the Nazi Christians did to the European Jewish community in WW2.
Some genocides simply continue in a much more extensive manner than others and nothing in the supposed international definition that you quote allows for that being factored in. Still, the Jewish community of both the US and Israel, along with the Christian war mongers in the US and elsewhere are now committing a genocide against Palestinians that does meet the definition as you showed it to us above.
It is easy to imagine jerks in the Nazi Era saying that any crimes committed by them were dwarfed in scale to what the International Jewish ‘Conspiracy’ had already done supposedly to the Good German community. You are of a kind with this type.
Tony Logan,
In part, you wrote, “They have stolen much of their land and property and committed horrible crimes of violence against Palestinians which are ongoing.”
Operation Cast Lead would not have been necessary if the Hamas terrorist group had not ended its ceasefire and launched scores of rockets on Israel. Every state–Israel, too,–has an inherent right of self-defense. No responsible leader could allow his or her civilian population to absorb the attacks. Had Paris or London or New York been under unrelenting rocket attacks, there is no doubt that France, the UK, and the U.S. would have acted to neutralize the aggression.
You also stated, “There is one big problem with using the international definition of genocide though, in that it does not give any comparative insight about the size and extent of varying genocides that have happened and are happening around the Planet.”
The “problem” is that the definition does not permit one to trivialize the genocide, which is among the gravest crimes against humanity. Israel is not engaging in genocide. If it were, it would no longer have any Arab population living within its borders. Genocides be they the Holocaust, in Cambodia, in Rwanda, etc., meet the standards set forth under international law.
Trivialization of genocide for advancing political agendas only diverts attention from the horrors of actual genocide and desensitizes the public to such crimes. And a desensitized public is less willing to act to thwart genocidal conduct when it appears.
It is not I who trivialize the word ‘genocide’ by mentioning the simple reality that by the definition of it you posted here yourself, that Israel is engaging in committing it against the Palestinians WITH QUITE A LOT OF HELP from the US government.
You posted this definition and used it in your own arguments and now say that I am trivializing the meaning when I merely point out that expelling people from their homes and property as the Israeli Jews have done to Palestinians meets this definition of what genocide is quite well as stated.
What’s your problem, Don? By this definition White South Africans and White Rhodesians also committed genocide against their Black populations, but obviously that was nothing in comparison to what the German Christians did to the Jewish European population. Some genocides are more complete in their slaughter than others.
By the way, Don, are you a Christian like Mary seems to be from what she has said here? It is the Christians who seem most prone to committing genocides around the world, is it not? Do you take responsibility for that, or do you trivialize the meaning of the word and deny the reality that Christians have most often been the group that has most often committed genocides against other peoples?
When it comes to Holocaust denials, the Christians win NUMBER 1 in the rankings of who does that.
Tony Logan said: “I merely point out that expelling people from their homes and property as the Israeli Jews have done to Palestinians meets this definition of what genocide is quite well as stated.”
Your heart must really be aching over the masses of Jews “expelled from their homes and property” by the Arab countries in which they had lived at the time of the ’48 War. Unlike the Arab countries abandoning their Palestinian brethren, denying them citizenship and letting them live in misery, Israel absorbed those Jews expelled. Which raises the queston of why Palestinian refugees still exist today, and, indeed, have multiplied since ’48. Arab countries with all their oil wealth are among the richest on the planet and yet they allow the Palestinians to live in squalor instead of allowing emigration. You are outraged at Israeli treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza, but, you seem oblivious, or, maybe unconcerned, about the inhumane abuse Palestinians endure in Lebanon…
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24170
Tony Logan wrote: “I merely point out that expelling people from their homes and property as the Israeli Jews have done to Palestinians”
The vast majority of Palestinians fled Israel of their own volition at the time of the ’48 War, resulting in the refugee situation persisting today. Prior to the establishment of Israel, the Palestinians living in the area were offered their own land on which to establish an independent state. They refused the opportunity and, instead, tried to annihilate those Jews populating Israel. 60 years later, Israel has turned sand into gold and the Palestinians continue to have one goal in life, which is to destroy Israel.
‘The vast majority of Palestinians fled Israel of their own volition at the time of the ‘48 War’
That is just such stupid nonsense since people do not flee their Homeland and their homes and property under their own volition and you simply know that already, Mary. Could you even come up with such nonsense to describe the Cherokee as having fled their lands of their own volition, too? I think that if it was on behalf of Jewish Apartheid Israel you would be capable of just such, since that is just the type of moral corruption of heart and mind that racial supremacist theories (like Zionism) do most often come up with to justify their crimes.
Further, the Jews living previously in Arab countries did not mainly leave the Arab countries due to some sort of horrible persecution, but were much like the Russian Jews that immigrated over to Israel in the 1990s post downfall of the Soviet Union. They simply saw better opportunities economically than those they had in the countries they were leaving. They simply were not expelled by war as how the Israeli Jews did to their Palestinians neighbors in their ethnic cleansing operations.
Tony Logan,
You wrote, “It is not I who trivialize the word ‘genocide’ by mentioning the simple reality that by the definition of it you posted here yourself, that Israel is engaging in committing it against the Palestinians WITH QUITE A LOT OF HELP from the US government.”
Israel is not committing any willful acts consistent with the definition of genocide. To suggest that it is, that’s what trivializes genocide.
You added, “You posted this definition and used it in your own arguments and now say that I am trivializing the meaning when I merely point out that expelling people from their homes and property as the Israeli Jews have done to Palestinians meets this definition of what genocide is quite well as stated.”
Israel is not expelling its Arab residents. According to the latest demographic figures, almost 1.7 million Arabs reside within Israel’s borders. That figure has been rising in recent years. If expulsion were underway, the Arab population would be plummeting.
[quote]What’s your problem, Don? By this definition White South Africans and White Rhodesians also committed genocide against their Black populations, but obviously that was nothing in comparison to what the German Christians did to the Jewish European population. Some genocides are more complete in their slaughter than others.[/quote]
Apartheid was crime against humanity. I did not address Apartheid in any of my comments. That does not mean that I don’t condemn that serious crime against humanity. I do.
[quote]It is the Christians who seem most prone to committing genocides around the world, is it not? Do you take responsibility for that, or do you trivialize the meaning of the word and deny the reality that Christians have most often been the group that has most often committed genocides against other peoples?
When it comes to Holocaust denials, the Christians win NUMBER 1 in the rankings of who does that.[/quote]
The abuses that took place in the name of Christianity during the course of history are well-established. Unfortunately, the historic experience is what it is. It cannot be undone. The clock cannot be turned back.
However, people can learn from that experience. They can understand that human nature is dualistic (good and bad). They can learn from the worst abuses of the darker side of human nature. That is precisely why one should not trivialize genocide, accept Holocaust denial, etc. Otherwise, the important lessons the past has to offer so as to reduce the prospects of future episodes of such horrendous crimes against humanity will not be learned.
‘Israel is not committing any willful acts consistent with the definition of genocide. ‘
Yes it is.
Tony Logan,
You wrote, “I think that if it was on behalf of Jewish Apartheid Israel…”
It is apparent that you are doing little more than hurling epithets (“Apartheid,” “racism,” “genocide,” etc.) in a bid to demonize Israel. Those epithets have as little to do with reality as they are harsh.
The fact is, Israel does not engage in Apartheid. It never has. By no reasonable criteria does Israel even begin to approach policies along those lines.
The Library of Congress’ Country Study on South Africa details South Africa’s Apartheid era laws states, in par:
[i]The Population Registration Act (No. 30) of 1950 provided the basis for separating the population of South Africa into different races. Under the terms of this act, all residents of South Africa were to be classified as white, coloured, or native (later called Bantu) people. Indians, whom the HNP in 1948 had refused to recognize as permanent inhabitants of South Africa, were included under the category “Asian” in 1959. The act required that people be classified primarily on the basis of their “community acceptability”; later amendments placed greater stress on “appearance” in order to deal with the practice of light-colored blacks “passing” as whites. The act also provided for the compilation of a population register for the whole country and for the issuing of identity cards.
Other laws provided for geographic, social, and political separation. The Group Areas Act (No. 41) of 1950 extended the provisions of the Natives Land Act (No. 27) of 1913, and later laws divided South Africa into separate areas for whites and blacks (including coloureds), and gave the government the power to forcibly remove people from areas not designated for their particular racial group. The Tomlinson Commission in 1954 officially concluded that the areas set aside for Africans would support no more than two-thirds of the African population even under the best of conditions, but the government ignored its recommendation that more land be allocated to the reserves and began removing Africans from white areas.
The Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act (No. 55) of 1949 made marriages between whites and members of other racial groups illegal. The Immorality Act (No. 21) of 1950 extended an earlier ban on sexual relations between whites and blacks (the Immorality Act [No. 5] of 1927) to a ban on sexual relations between whites and any non-whites. The Bantu Authorities Act (No. 68) of 1951 established Bantu tribal, regional, and territorial authorities in the regions set out for Africans under the Group Areas Act, and it abolished the Natives Representative Council. The Bantu authorities were to be dominated by chiefs and headmen appointed by the government. The government also sought in 1951 to remove coloured voters in the Cape from the common roll onto a separate roll and to require that they elect white representatives only (Separate Representation of Voters Act [No. 46] of 1951). The Supreme Court immediately declared the act invalid on constitutional grounds, but after a long struggle it was successfully reenacted (the Separate Representation of Voters Amendment Act [No. 30] of 1956).[/i]
Tony Logan,
You wrote:
‘Israel is not committing any willful acts consistent with the definition of genocide. ‘
Yes it is.
Please provide a link to the relevant decision from the International Court of Justice or International Criminal Court for decisions in which Israel was convicted of carrying out genocide.
There are none.
Your charge is an unsubstantiated opinion with no merit whatsoever.
‘The fact is, Israel does not engage in Apartheid. It never has. By no reasonable criteria does Israel even begin to approach policies along those lines.’
O, my mistake, Don. I was under the impression that Israel had built up a wall or two and had a check point someplace or other. Thanks to your posts I now know that I was entirely mistaken. Good work!
Don wrote: “It is apparent that you are doing little more than hurling epithets (”Apartheid,” “racism,” “genocide,” etc.) in a bid to demonize Israel. Those epithets have as little to do with reality as they are harsh. ”
Thank you, Don. My thoughts exactly. I initially thought this blog might offer some semblance of intelligent discourse on the Arab Israeli conflict, but, in the end, it’s really nothing more than an Israeli hate site staffed by a few innocuous small fries ill-informed about the nuances of the situation. I guess such a condition breeds hate.
Mary’s gloves come off…. and now she has her metal knuckles in place! lol… You fetishists are just too funny! But you eat up a lot of precious time with your non-stop spam.
Tony Morgan wrote: O, my mistake, Don. I was under the impression that Israel had built up a wall or two and had a check point someplace or other. Thanks to your posts I now know that I was entirely mistaken. Good work!
What is missing is the reason the security fence became necessary. Israel simply didn’t decide to build a fence for the sake of doing so.
The security fence became necessary only after waves of Palestinian suicide bombers crossed into Israel from the West Bank.
Contrary to the disinformation peddled by Israel’s critics, the security fence is not a “Berlin Wall.” The Berlin Wall was intended to keep East Germany’s residents from escaping to West Germany. Israel’s security fence is not aimed at keeping Israel’s residents from escaping to freedom. Israel is a free society. It is a passive defensive measure aimed at keeping terrorists out of Israel.
In practically every human society, when it comes to ethical prioritization, the preservation of lives takes precedence over the matter of convenience at all times. The security fence will lead to a tradeoff between Israeli lives saved and Palestinian inconvenience. While it is unfortunate and heartbreaking that many Palestinians will be inconvenienced, so long as terrorism persists, the choice has to be in favor of saving lives.
In its written brief to the International Court of Justice, the Government of Israel highlighted the stark reality involved:
Looking at Israeli society today as a passing visitor, one has a sense of solidity and normality and self-confidence. This, however, belies a more fundamental reality. It is a reality of the thoughts of a parent who, when unable to reach the teenager out with her friends, thinks immediately of the Tel Aviv Dolphinarium in June 2001 when 21 were killed, mostly 15 and 16 year olds, and 120 injured, at the hands of a suicide bomber at work late on a Friday night. It is a reality in which the elderly, gathering to celebrate the festival of Passover, think of their friends in Netanya in March 2002 when 30 were killed, most in their 70s and 80s, by a suicide bomber in the Park Hotel. It is the reality that, when one stops for a snack at a restaurant in Haifa, one is vulnerable to an attack like that which, in March 2002, killed 15 in the Matza restaurant in Haifa. It is the reality, too, of wondering, every time one steps onto a bus, whether one will see one’s family again in the evening, something denied the 17 killed on the bus from Tel Aviv to Tiberius at the hands of a suicide bomber in June 2002, as well as to countless others on similar journeys. The roll call is long. It reaches into the very heart of Israeli society. No one is unaffected by it. It unites the political spectrum.
The dates of these attacks in Netanya and Haifa have a particular significance. In March 2002, largely as a result of indiscriminate suicide bomb attacks directed at Israeli civilians, 135 Israelis were killed and 721 injured, many critically. As a ratio per head of population, that would correspond to terrorist attacks killing in a single month over 25,000 people in China or around 5,700 people in the United States or around 2,900 people in Russia or around 1,200 people in France or the United Kingdom.
In direct response to this murderous onslaught, the Government of Israel, in April 2002 approved the plans for the construction of the fence as a non-violent and temporary measure of last resort. At the time of writing this statement, Israel is faced with 40 to 50 security alerts each week, many of these threatening another Dolphinarium or Park Hotel or Haifa restaurant or Tel Aviv bus. The fence, for all its controversy and difficulties, is aiding this fight against terrorism. No one, on any side of the political divide in Israel, whatever their views on the fence, thinks otherwise.
Tony Logan wrote: O, my mistake, Don. I was under the impression that Israel had built up a wall or two and had a check point someplace or other. Thanks to your posts I now know that I was entirely mistaken. Good work!”
That is a security wall necessitated by a steady stream of suicide bombers sent into Israel to massacre innocent men, women, children and babies. Did you sleep through the intifada years? Or, perhaps, in your mind, Israel has no right to protect its citizenry? Incidentally, the wall has proven successful in preventing the rash of suicide bombers, though, unfortunate that Israel needed to go to such extreme measures. It’s really unfortunate that Palestinians cannot live peacefully with their Israeli neighbors. What would Mr. Rogers say? Goodness, are you ignorant of these things or are you simply trying to functon as an anti-Israel propagandist? I don’t recall blacks strapping on bombs in S. Africa. Unless, I slept through a S. African intifada. Also, you conveniently neglect to mention Egypt’s closure of the Rafah border. More humane treatment of the Palestinians at the hands of other Arabs.
When do you and Don go off shift, Mary?
Mary,
It is unfortunate that this blog serves as a forum for bashing Israel. More appealing would have been a forum in which constructive views on the Arab-Israeli conflict could be exchanged.
The wild charges made against Israel are merely the articles of faith of those advancing them. They are not constrained by facts, reason, or pragmatism. They are merely a mirror that reflects the rejectionist ideology held by hardline states such as Iran and Syria and terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah and Hamas that sustains the conflict and makes the lives of Jews and Arabs worse off than they would otherwise be.
Don, I concur with your sentiments and, in fact, expressed the same concerns elsewhere on this blog. I initially thought this would be a forum for rational, intelligent debate on the Arab Israeli situation. However, it’s impossible to have reasonable discourse with those whose default position is that Israel is the source of all of the Middle East’s woes, with little or no real information to back up any allegations or criticisms, and, perhaps, the entire world’s problems. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, and, so, too, bandwidth. I am no apologist for Israel and am critical of certain Israeli poliicies, but, debating with knee-jerk antagonists to Israel who cannot cede one point in Israel’s favor nor against Hamas and the Arab world quickly becomes fruitless and, frankly, boring.
Mary,
Israel, like any other human society, has its strengths and its flaws. Your commentary has been objective and reasonable.
The critics, on the other hand, appear to be trapped in a way of thinking that puts the anti-Israel ideology ahead of facts, circumstances, and reason. In his memoirs, Anwar Sadat wrote about just such a psychology. He explained that the psychology “made each side simply unwilling to believe the other.” His trip to Jerusalem was aimed at shattering that psychology. He wrote:
What was it, then, that needed to change? We had been accustomed (and a whole generation had been brought up) to regard Israel as taboo—as an entity whose emotional associations simply prevented anyone from approaching it. The situation went from bad to worse as the cumulative effect of things said and done over the years rendered any change difficult, if it didn’t actually preclude that possibility for both the Arabs and the Israelis. So I concluded that any possible change should occur to the substance of that attitude itself. If indeed we wanted to get to grips with the substance of the dispute—with the basis of the problem—in order to establish a durable peace, I reasoned, we ought to find a completely new approach that would bypass all formalities and procedural technicalities by pulling down the barrier of mutual mistrust. Only thus, I decided, could we hope to break out of the vicious circle and avert the blind alley of the past…
I had reckoned that my Jerusalem trip would break the vicious circle within which we had been caught up for years.
Zionists quoting Anwar Sadat! How funny. Zionists for Abbas, too!
Don, do you think that we should take that Holocaust denying Pope out? Too chicken to go there, are yuh? Big Bad Zionists too chicken to go after the Catholics?! What’s wrong with you, don”t you want to defend the Jewish people?
Tony Logan,
You asked, “Don, do you think that we should take that Holocaust denying Pope out?”
Again, the facts are incorrect. Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunication of former Bishop Richard Williamson. It was Williamson, not the Pope, who denied the Holocaust. I believe the Pope made a serious error of judgment in his decision.
You are so right on this one, Don. The Pope said he was so sorry about the whole thing, and that he and his family had just been led astray at the time. You are so right to accept his apology. My bad.
NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION”’
Once again, I disown this sort of nit wit title to this thread. It is shameful to have to be answering these Zionist creeps under this title of a commentary by Thomas, and the fact that he could not stay and defend this sort of stuff that he helped put online here is absolutely telling.
I realize that this material was pulled out of context from his web site but it was done with his permission and his participation here on notmytribe. Where is he now to explain himself to readers of his comments and his titling of his material? I guess he has now evaporated into cyberspace leaving others to hold the baggage of his unfortunate comparison of Nazis with their victims in WW2?
Zionism is bad enough without exaggerating its defects by comparing the Zionist Jews to the German Christian NAZIs. Lesson hopefully finally learned by some here? But some are very stubborn.
Tony Logan,
Just as was the case with the security fence, you omitted essential context. In the case of the security fence, you failed to mention the reason it was constructed (to keep suicide bombers out of Israel).
With respect to the Pope, you failed to mention that membership in the Hitler youth was mandatory. He was also drafted into the German Army and deserted.
Facts can be found on, among other places, MSNBC.
It is clear from your earlier post that you are trying to pit Jews and Catholics against one another by distorting the Pope’s controversial decision to lift the excommunication from Bishop Williamson. I’m not going to take that bait.
It is unnecessary. It is wholly irrelevant to the Arab-Israeli conflict. It is only a desperate attempt to evade the reality that the wild allegations of Israeli genocide, among others, have no factual basis.
Tony Logan wrote:
NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION”’
Once again, I disown this sort of nit wit title to this thread. It is shameful to have to be answering these Zionist creeps under this title of a commentary by Thomas, and the fact that he could not stay and defend this sort of stuff that he helped put online here is absolutely telling.
The honorable thing would be to dissociate from the title and the message. They’re two sides of the same coin of hate. Both the title and message are indefensible
Im so glad to see there are more Jews like thomas mc I thought i was alone . I have come to the conclusion Palestine is a black and white issue! gray areas are for those who’s best intentions are suspect I understand why you use Nazi i like zionazi too. Oh dont try the selfhating jew shit! it wont work. seems only jews suffering is “unique” we have a regulated monopoly on suffering, No suffering is unique. It’s a HUMAN condition fuckers!! ,now where was i oh yea I like to use the kapo too i call anyone who supports IDF actions in Gaza a kapo, or neo-kapo. thomas keep up the good work im proud of you ! ANTI-SEMITISM =CAUSE AND EFFECT Zionist jews enforce rules all over the world that dont apply to them. sorry abt my spelling been up all night fighting lies on tweet