Israel’s government no longer has any moral compass

white_phosphorous_munition_firing‘I want to know what goes on in the heads of these experienced leaders when they decide to use such weapons in the field, this time using artillery fire in a densely populated urban area. I wonder whether they think they can get away with their claims that they were aiming only at terrorists. ‘ quoted from Simcha Leventhal, a veteran of the Israeli military artillery corps where he served between 2000 -2003. My Military’s Moral Low

Israel’s government no longer has any moral compass and neither does the US’s government either. The weapons are American, the strategy of use is American, and the political support is American.

42 thoughts on “Israel’s government no longer has any moral compass

  1. AvatarDon

    The author fails to distinguish between appropriate and prohibited use of white phosphorus. Under international law:

    Incendiary weapon” means any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat, or combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target. (a) Incendiary weapons can take the form of, for example, flame throwers, fougasses, shells, rockets, grenades, mines, bombs and other containers of incendiary substances.

    (b) Incendiary weapons do not include:
    (i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such as illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems…

    In short, if the purpose for which white phosphorus was used was “to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat, or combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target,” then the use was prohibited. However, it was used to illuminate an area, the purpose of its use was lawful.

    Of course, proper precautions with respect to civilians is required. Currently, there is no credible evidence that the IAF used the white phosphorus in an unlawful fashion. To its credit, Israel is examining whether the proper degree of caution had been applied in one case in which white phosphorus was used. Should white phosphorus have been used inappropriately, Israel will likely take the appropriate steps to reduce the prospects of a similar situation. The results of the investigation alone will determine the conclusions of what happened in that single incident. Efforts to examine how military tools were used and to fix any such problems that might have occurred provide evidence of a strong moral compass.

  2. AvatarMorton Perelman

    Asserting that Israel has lost its moral compass suggests Israel has had a moral foundation. Fair enough, but where are the morally upstanding Palestinians voicing their objections to the suffering of Palestinians, and Israelis, caused by Hamas? Why the silence? Does one person even have a moral compass?

  3. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    ‘Morton’, are you part of the same complex as Tom, Don, and Joe? I just mentioned that these nom de guerres for the Israeli Internet Megaphone spam machine were just too cute, and now we get a Morton Salt of the Earth cyber presence coming our way?

    BTW, I note that the Sri Lanka government puts a virus on your machine if one tries to excess the Tamil rebel group web site they are trying to initiate the final solution on. Check it out, Israel! There is more than one government waging cyber warfare out there.

  4. AvatarDon

    There is no “Israeli Internet Megaphone spam machine.” Instead, a number of concerned citizens have raised objections to biased, possibly even anti-semitic, content.

    Unfortunately, this website contains numerous pieces consistent with some of the criteria for identifying anti-semitism specified by the Jewish Virtual Museum.

    Excerpts from the Jewish Virtual Museum’s discussion on anti-semitism:

    There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews. Anti-Semitic views can be easily distinguished from legitimate criticism of Israel…

    Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.

    Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.

    Attacks on the merits of Israel’s existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.

    Source: Jewish Virtual Museum

  5. Avatarandy

    “Unfortunately, this website contains numerous pieces consistent with some of the criteria for identifying anti-semitism specified by the Jewish Virtual Museum.”

    too fucking bad- go somewhere else then

  6. AvatarDon

    From the OSCE’s Berlin Declaration concerning anti-semitism:

    Examples of the ways in which anti-Semitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

    Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

    Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

    Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.

    Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

    Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

    Some of the content posted here is consistent with the criteria set forth in the Berlin Declaration.

  7. AvatarDon

    Andy,

    You can find the definition of “Fascism” here. Israel, the U.S., and NATO’s members do not meet the definition. Therefore, no one here is “forgiving” fascists.

  8. Avatarandy

    you remind me of the people who I have read about who say things like “it was good the usa dropped atomic bombs because it saved amerikan lives” as if all lives aren’t precious.

  9. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    Andy, it is quite an honor for NotMyTribe to be be receiving such fine and detailed attention from ‘Don’ , The Military Man here, so that is why we continue to reply to this obtuse apparatchnik. Who would ever have thought that our little blog would receive the nonstop attention we have received? And ‘Don’ does appear to be military from overseas. Look at his resume so far…

    He is here from early in the morning his time, until quite late at night his time. It’s almost as if he is at work 16 hours a day. And it’s not even his blog!

    He has multiple personalities, too,which suggests that ‘Don’ is part of a team of workers. And he has said as much.

    He comes up with ‘character references’ by the OSCE, which is nothing more nor less than NATO in ‘Human Rights’ drag. Kind of Queer of ‘Don’, don’t you think? I mean who else, Andy, would reference the OSCE in their arguments other than a military man from overseas? It’s not like he dreams up this stuff after watching Glenn Beck or O’Reilly on American TV!

    So I feel honored to think that perhaps ‘Don’ is a secret military spy that has chosen to climb into bed with us here at NotMyTribe for an effort at a fuck! I just never would have believed it possible before though? … but as ‘Don’ has said, he and a few of his concerned friends just casually got themselves together indignant at us commie freaks’ slander of his team, and decided to give us a call together to correct the record, so to speak. And here ‘Don’ is together with us.

    Bring out the beer for The Boys of ‘Don’s’ Team! It’s an opportunity not to be missed talking direct with them! They are such stud muffins, too! So kiss up with ‘Don’, Andy, and let’s Party, Party, Party!

  10. AvatarDon

    Andy,

    Then you’re misreading me. But the reality is, Israel is not a fascist state. Allegations toward that end have no merit.

  11. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    Andy didn’t exactly call Israel a fascist state, ‘Don’, but rather called you a ‘closed minded fascist forgiving apologizer’. ..lol… Unless, of course, you are the ‘Jewish State’?

    Let’s Potty, Potty, Potty with ‘Don’ here!

  12. AvatarDon

    Tony Logan,

    He said, “fascist forgiving apologist.” It was clear that I was the “apologist” and the “facist” I’m “forgiving” is Israel. Israel is not and has never feen a fascist state.

  13. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    Fascist minded types like you often exist and operate in states that are something other than classical fascist states, ‘Don’. We have lots of fascist type people in the US, for just one example of what I am talking about, yet the US is not a totally fascist run country.

    I hope that that is not too complex a concept for such an obtuse military minded guy like yourself to actually be able to mentally digest, ‘Don’?

  14. AvatarDon

    Tony Logan,

    Not everyone with whom you disagree is a “fascist type” person. If anything, your unwillingness to examine the facts i.e., Israel is not committing genocide, and quotes that have been taken out of context, has more in common with the approach undertaken by fascist leaders. Nevertheless, I have not accused you of supporting fascism or such leaders.

  15. AvatarDon

    And in a lesson why one should not prejudge incidents, today’s edition of Haaretz reported:

    The United Nations has reversed its stance on one of the most contentious and bloody incidents of the recent Israel Defense Forces operation in Gaza, saying that an IDF mortar strike that killed 43 people on January 6 did not hit one of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency schools after all…

    Senior IDF officials had previously expressed skepticism that the school had been struck, saying that two mortar shells could not kill 43 people and wound dozens more.

    Questions about the veracity of the claims that the school had been hit by the IDF were also raised last week by the Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail. The newspaper said that a teacher in the UNRWA compound at the time of the strike “was adamant” that no people had been killed inside the compound.

  16. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    I guess neither of you 2 turkeys has begun to wonder why this supposed ‘news’ from the Israeli Jewish press has not yet been picked up by any other more reliable source such as Reuters or the BBC? In fact, this ‘news’ that the UN has said something different than before has even yet not been picked up by the United Nations itself! http://www.un.org/apps/news/infocusRel.asp?infocusID=70&Body=Palestin&Body1=

    You guys remind me of how the hard core Stalinists in the American Communist Party would once upon a time deny that Stalin had ever done any atrocities to anybody. It’s a pretty sad state of total denial that you are both sunk into, Misters Dummy and Ventriloquist.

  17. AvatarDon

    Tony Logan,

    You wrote,

    Had you gone to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs’s website, you would have found the information.

    Instead, you prematurely concluded that the story was nothing more than propaganda reported by an Israeli newspaper. It wasn’t.

  18. AvatarDon

    I accidently didn’t paste Tony’s quote. However, the hyperlink I provided rebuts his claim that the report I initially posted is not reliable.

  19. AvatarAndrew Schiffman

    I’m of two minds on Israel’s incursion into Gaza. On one hand, no sovereign state should, would or could tolerate a constant barrage of missiles fired over its border, causing complete havoc as well as human suffering. That Hamas’s efforts resulted in “only” 11 casualties is not the point as Hamas’s intent, as reflected by the metal shards placed inside the missiles, is to inflict maximum damage. Let’s understand these are not firecrackers. This is particularly cruel and firing on civilians is contemptable. So, on this level, Israel had no other option but to respond and had a responsibility to protect its citizens. As for innocent Palestinians caught in the crossfire, my response is that therein lies the difference between Israel and Hamas: The former kills innocents unintentionally, the latter kills innocents deliberately. Where I’m of two minds has nothing to do with the ethics of war as war is oftentimes simply unavoidable, as in this instance. My concern, however, is the political and PR fallout from Israel’s actons in Gaza. Hamas taunts Israel with missiles and rhetoric with the purpose of luring Israel into war, which Hamas knows well will inevitably entail images of death and destruction in Gaza broadcast in the media and on the Internet. Make no mistake, Hamas’s tears over Palestinian casualties are crocodile tears as the scenes of war serve Hamas’s endgame of isolating Israel in the eyes of the world. Unfortunately, the Palestinians are mere pawns as they have been pawns for decades.

  20. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    “Had you gone to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs’s website, you would have found the information. Instead, you prematurely concluded that the story was nothing more than propaganda reported by an Israeli newspaper. It wasn’t.’

    I have now gone to the site you have now referred us all to go to, Super ‘Don’, and saw no refutation of the basic information at all. The bombing by Israel killed 40 people inside the UN building there in Gaza. You now have the nerve to tell us that because the bombs hit into the street instead of right directly on the school important new info? What a troll you are, Dude!

    Nothing was changed at all with this slight twiddle in what the UN has stated before, and the reason that neither the BBC nor Reuters picked any of this up is that this restatement of the material changes absolutely nothing from the fact that Israel killed 40 civilians trying to hide themselves away from the Israeli Army murderers by going into a United Nation refuge that was supposed to guarantee their safety.

    Cheney and Bush should hire you and Morton Salt as their lawyers if we can ever get them to court to be tried for their war crimes. Because your arguments are just that slimy.

  21. AvatarDon

    Tony Logan,

    If you happened to read the original accounts, the UN accused Israel of firing at the school despite having its coordinates.

    As the IDF was under fire at the time, the IDF had a right under the laws of war to respond to that fire. Hamas bears responsibility for the civilian deaths given that it was operating from among the civilians. Hamas was engaging in human shielding.

  22. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    As well as the 1300 Palestinians who were killed in the war, thousands more suffered serious injuries. Many of them were left with extensive burns, with Israel accused of using highly inflammable white phosphorus in civilian areas.

    Al Jazeera’s Hoda Abdel Hamid reports from the burns unit in Gaza’s Shifa hospital. Gaza civilians left with extensive burns – 15 Feb 09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EicbgiOsD4o

    Thanks for your disinformation, Don and Mitch. These are your kids, too.

  23. AvatarDenise Cohen

    Many more Germans were killed in WW II than Americans. Citing disproportionate casualties in the Hamas war merely points to a more effective Israeli military operation. Lik it or not, the objective of any war is to win and influence the behavior of adversaries. Hamas provoked Israel into war, Israel won the war in decisive fashion. Coincidentally, Hamas is currently negotiating a truce with Israel.

  24. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    UN Security Council renews call for greater humanitarian access to Gaza from the UN News Centre http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=29904&Cr=gaza&Cr1=

    Israel has nuclear weapons and of course can ‘win’ wars, ‘Denise’, but it was Israel that provokes these wars, and not Hezbolluh or Hamas or any any Palestinian leadership or grouping. With war Israel can take attention off the fact that it is simply continuing to rob more and more property and land away from its victims. You like that, don’t you?

  25. AvatarBan Sidhe

    I now believe Israels government never had a moral compass to begin with. My views of Israel have radically changed since the holocaust it brought on Gaza. They have now become what they once fought against.

  26. AvatarDenise Cohen

    “Israel has nuclear weapons and of course can ‘win’ wars, ‘Denise’, but it was Israel that provokes these wars, and not Hezbolluh or Hamas or any any Palestinian leadership or grouping. With war Israel can take attention off the fact that it is simply continuing to rob more and more property and land away from its victims. You like that, don’t you?”

    Hamas firing rockets into Israel is a provocation of war. Aggressive behavior from Hezbollah resulted in a severe military response from Israel that has since caused Hezbollah to cease rocket fire into Israel. As for charges that Israel has “robbed” property, Israel was legally established under UN Res. 181. Stolen land is highly subjective, depending on whose ox is being gored. Israel has complete legitimacy as a state, so, deal with it. Thus far, the Palestinian territories are not even considered a state. Israel returned Gaza and the matter of West Bank settlements are open to negotiation. Repeatedly referencing Israel as having stolen land from the Palestinians serves no forward-looking purpose.

  27. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    And what is 290,000 Jewish settlers in the West Bank Occupied Territories, Denise Honey, if not a ‘provocation of war’? You don’t mind me calling you Honey, do you, Denise? I mean even though you change sex and names so? …lol…

  28. AvatarDenise Cohen

    Hey, Tony, when can we look forward to you embracing your own moral compass and leaving the occupied territory known as America?

  29. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    Well, Honey, certainly not when I call myself Jewish and head towards living in the Jewish State as settler.

  30. AvatarDenise Cohen

    I just love it when those living in occupied America bash Israel with allegations of occupying someone else’s land. Such rank hypocrisy. Pack your bags and leave!

  31. AvatarTony Logan Post author

    Denise, I’m married to a Mexican woman and we both live in Aztlan and plan to retire in Mexico. Your intellectual cohorts pretty much already killed all the other Native Americans that used to live in Colorado. What should I do, Doll? Play along with your little ethnic cleansing operation in Palestine?

  32. EricEric

    What is with the gender-flip-flopping of alias “Denise/Mitch/Mary/Ronald?”

    And I’m thinking it looks like “Don” had the day off for President’s Day.

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