NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION”

Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day, when Israeli Jews celebrate the genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians they stole the “land of Israel” from.

Can the world survive the NAZI State of Israel?

Why Israel is bad for the Jews. Not that Israel gives a damn about Jews outside its borders.

How Israel created Hamas.

The hanged Mussolini, didn’t they? UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak told CNN in an interview on Monday that they have enough evidence to try Donald Rumsfeld for war crimes.

40,000 Americans a day are now losing their jobs, and all the GOP can think about is more tax cuts for the filthy-rich.

Demon Democrats. Hope for justice and peace in the Middle East died this morning, as AIPAC puppet and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton declared that Israel has a right to commit genocide if Hamas sends a bottle rocket over the border.

Never forget: Terrorism did not exist in the Middle East until the Zionists introduced it to steal the “land of Israel” from the Palestinians.

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100 Responses to NAZI ISRAEL PREPARING FOR “FINAL SOLUTION”

  1. Avatar Claire Short says:

    Tony Logan…
    I think that if it was on behalf of Jewish Apartheid…

    Claire Short responds…
    Jewish apartheid? Pure propaganda rubbish. Considering Jews are banned from most Arab states, and, in contrast, Arabs in Israel enjoy all the freedoms and human rights of Israeli Jews, you evidently either do not understand the concept of apartheid or choose to turn a blind eye to discrimination, oppression and bigotry among the Arab nations. Clearly, you have not lived in Saudi Arabia, where those practicing any religion other than Islam are subject to execution, and where there are “Muslim-Only Road” and “Non-Muslim Road” signs. It would behoove you to become better informed on apartheid practices in the Middle East before spouting reckless and false accusations of apartheid in Israel. Read testimony before the Congressional Human Rights Caucus (June 4, 2002) of Ali Al-Ahmed, Director of the Saudi Institute, who stated the following:
    “Saudi Arabia is a glaring example of religious apartheid. The religious institutions from government clerics to judges, to religious curricula, and all religious instructions in media are restricted to the Wahhabi understanding of Islam, adhered to by less than 40% of the population. The Saudi government communized Islam, through its monopoly of both religious thoughts and practice. Wahhabi Islam is imposed and enforced on all Saudis regardless of their religious orientations. The Wahhabi sect does not tolerate other religious or ideological beliefs, Muslim or not. Religious symbols by Muslims, Christians, Jewish and other believers are all banned. The Saudi embassy in Washington is a living example of religious apartheid. In its 50 years, there has not been a single non-Sunni Muslim diplomat in the embassy. The branch of Imam Mohamed Bin Saud University in Fairfax, Virginia instructs its students that Shia Islam is a Jewish conspiracy.”

    According to Saudi policy for tourists, it is not permissible to bring Christian or Jewish religious symbols and books into the kingdom and they are subject to confiscation.

    To gain further insights into apartheid practices in Saudi Arabia, I commend to you the report by the Center for Religious Freedom of Freedom House (2006), entitled, “2006 Saudi Arabia’s Curriculum of Intolerance” According to Freedom House…
    “The Saudi Ministry of Education Islamic studies textbooks continue to promote an ideology of hatred that teaches bigotry and deplores tolerance. These texts continue to instruct students to hold a dualistic worldview in which there exist two incompatible realms – one consisting of true believers in Islam … and the other the unbelievers – realms that can never coexist in peace. Students are being taught that Christians and Jews and other Muslims are “enemies” of the true believer… The textbooks condemn and denigrate Shiite and Sufi Muslims’ beliefs and practices as heretical and call them “polytheists”, command Muslims to hate Christians, Jews, polytheists and other “unbelievers”, and teach that the Crusades never ended, and identify Western social service providers, media outlets, centers for academic studies, and campaigns for women’s rights as part of the modern phase of the Crusades.”

    Illustrations of intolerance and apartheid-type rule in the Arab world are far too voluminous to highlight here, but, singling out Israel with accusations of apartheid when real apartheid is alive and well elsewhere throughout the Middle East demonstrates a biased agenda and reckless disregard for the truth.

  2. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Claire Short responds…
    ‘Jewish apartheid? Pure propaganda rubbish. Considering Jews are banned from most Arab states, and, in contrast, Arabs in Israel enjoy all the freedoms and human rights of Israeli Jews…’

    Claire, you know that both statements you make here are the real rubbish. While in a state of war, it is true that most Israeli Jews are not usually given visas into Arab countries, but what do you expect when Israel continues to treat the indigenous people of their ‘Jewish State’ in the manner that is being done?

    The indigenous Palestinian Arabs are in no way given equal rights to the Jewish immigrants that now make up the majority who have been allowed to reside in peace inside Israel. For you to make such a bald faced lie shows exactly how impossible it is to actually hold any reasonable semblance of dialog with the likes of the typical Zionist poster on this blog.

    As to Don’s idea that the Walls and barriers constructed by Jewish Israel is to prevent attacks on them by Palestinians, that is mere pretext. The real reason for these walls and barriers is simply to make life impossible for the now totally second class Arab population living in areas coveted by the Jewish population.

    Don won’t take up the issue of Catholic responsibility for the real Jewish Holocaust and prefers to hate Palestinians
    instead, because the Zionist project is that of a group of total bullies who want to thieve off Palestinians land and property, but do not actually dare do the same with Catholic properties,even though that is a major part of the grouping that robbed and murdered Jews in WW2.

  3. Avatar andy says:

    listen you morons! cut out the bashing of Tony! He is the most actively involved person in our area in terms of all social justice issues. Are you out in streets week after week after week actually doing something for peace, the poor, the environment etc. Where are you doing beyond sitting at your computers and arguing the same tired points. Give it fucking up!!

  4. Avatar Don says:

    “Jew4palestine” wrote:

    Im so glad to see there are more Jews like thomas mc I thought i was alone . I have come to the conclusion Palestine is a black and white issue! gray areas are for those who’s best intentions are suspect I understand why you use Nazi i like zionazi too. Oh dont try the selfhating jew shit! it wont work. seems only jews suffering is “unique” we have a regulated monopoly on suffering, No suffering is unique. It’s a HUMAN condition fuckers!! ,now where was i oh yea I like to use the kapo too i call anyone who supports IDF actions in Gaza a kapo, or neo-kapo. thomas keep up the good work im proud of you ! ANTI-SEMITISM =CAUSE AND EFFECT Zionist jews enforce rules all over the world that dont apply to them. sorry abt my spelling been up all night fighting lies on tweet

    Several quick points are in order:

    1. No intellectually honest Jewish person would equate Zionism with Nazism.

    2. Comparing Zionism with Nazism merely trivializes the Nazi regime and its grave crimes against humanity.

    3. The “black-and-white” caricature of the Middle East that is presented by Israel’s enemies ignores the dynamics, historical experience, and developments that drive Middle Eastern affairs.

    4. The Jewish people have the same right to national expression (Zionism) as any other people has e.g., Palestinians have their own nationalism.

    5. Those who are familiar with anti-semitism understand that anti-semitism developed long before the Arab-Israeli war of 1948. Israel’s re-establishment did not mark the birth of anti-semitism.

  5. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan Wrote:

    Claire, you know that both statements you make here are the real rubbish…

    For you to make such a bald faced lie shows exactly how impossible it is to actually hold any reasonable semblance of dialog with the likes of the typical Zionist poster on this blog.

    As to Don’s idea that the Walls and barriers constructed by Jewish Israel is to prevent attacks on them by Palestinians, that is mere pretext. The real reason for these walls and barriers is simply to make life impossible for the now totally second class Arab population living in areas coveted by the Jewish population.

    Don won’t take up the issue of Catholic responsibility for the real Jewish Holocaust and prefers to hate Palestinians
    instead, because the Zionist project is that of a group of total bullies who want to thieve off Palestinians land and property, but do not actually dare do the same with Catholic properties,even though that is a major part of the grouping that robbed and murdered Jews in WW2.

    First, I posted a description of Apartheid laws from the Library of Congress’ Country Study on South Africa earlier in this thread. None of Israel’s policies are similar to those laws. That is the fact. Accusations of Israeli Apartheid ignore the facts of what Apartheid was.

    Second, if Israel’s intent behind the construction of the security fence were as you describe it, such a fence would have been constructed after the 1967 war to lock in territorial gains. That did not happen. The fence was only built to stop the flow of suicide bombers into Israel and it helped bring an end to the intifada responsible for the terrorism.

    Third, the issue of Pope Pius XII’s action or lack of action is a wholly separate matter from what is happening in the Middle East. The Arab leadership had an opportunity to cooperate with UNSCOP and might have gained a more favorable partition plan if it had. Instead, the Arab side refused to cooperate. The Jewish side abandoned its pursuit of the entire territory and accepted a compromise. Once the partition plan was adopted, the Arab side vowed warfare to squash the new state. After Israel was re-established on May 14, 1948, even as it reached out to its Arab neighbors for peace, Arab armies attempted to invade Israel. In December 2000, the Palestinians had a chance to gain a sovereign state in 97% of the West Bank, 100% of the Gaza Strip, and virtually all of East Jerusalem except for the Western Wall under President Clinton’s bridging proposal. Israel’s Prime Minister Ehud Barak accepted the plan. Yasser Arafat rejected it. Those were two historic opportunities that were squandered by bad leaders.

    In the end, as has been the case throughout this thread, Tony Logan’s messages are filled with exaggerated charges that have no basis in fact. Given how far his wild claims diverge from the historic experience and realities of the region, he would do well to heed Roman writer Publilius Syrus’ advice when it comes to discussing Arab-Israeli affairs:

    I have often regretted my speech, nevery my silence.

    Silence on an issue on which one lacks understanding/knowledge is far better than loud proclamations that cannot stand up to the facts. Mr. Logan’s rants have little to do with the facts. They are little different from seeking to wage conflict over the Internet rather than looking for opportunities for peace that would need to satisfy the core needs of both peoples.

  6. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    ‘Don says that in his opinion… ‘4. The Jewish people have the same right to national expression (Zionism) as any other people has e.g., Palestinians have their own nationalism.’

    No they don’t, Don, and for the same reason that the South African Boers didn’t have an equal right to ‘their nationalism’ in Apartheid South Africa before it was dismantled for being a racist State just like your ‘Jewish State’ currently is.

    What is so sad about all these racial supremacy schemes is that they are so based on fiction. The Palestinian Arabs that the European Jews kicked off the land they lived on are probably more genetically the ancestors of the Jews of Jesus’s or Moses’s time than the European Jewish immigrants arriving into the ‘Jewish State’. That’s the hidden secret of the ‘Jewish State’.

  7. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    Don wrote:
    The Jewish people have the same right to national expression (Zionism) as any other people has e.g., Palestinians have their own nationalism.

    Interesting that a small minority (Poll after poll shows the vast majority of Americans support Israel and, in fact, a recent poll showed most Americans are not in favor of a Palestinian state)equate Zionism with racism and say nothing about Saudi Arabia and Iran being Islamic states. Difference is Israel allows freedom of religion and of expression. Also, 20 percent of Israelis are Arab. Why is it permissable for Palestinians in Gaza to forbid Jews from living there? Can you imagine the hue and cry that would erupt if Israel prohibited non-Jews from living in Israel? The hypocrisy.

  8. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Don, stop ranting, Dude!

  9. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Welcome back, Mary…uh… I meant Grace. You guys are just a gas!

  10. Avatar Don says:

    Andy wrote:

    listen you morons! cut out the bashing of Tony! He is the most actively involved person in our area in terms of all social justice issues. Are you out in streets week after week after week actually doing something for peace, the poor, the environment etc. Where are you doing beyond sitting at your computers and arguing the same tired points. Give it fucking up!!

    Putting aside your unnecessary insults, no one is impugning Tony Logan’s efforts to help the poor, etc. However, a number of us are rightly critical of his skewed opinions that have nothing to do with “social justice.”

    Social justice does not entail treating the Jewish people as inferior. Yet, his rants deny the legitimacy and rights of the Jewish people.

    Social justice does not require that Israel alone be denied its inherent right of self-defense to protect the lives and wellbeing of its citizens from terrorists who seek to kill them.

    Social justice does not ignore the context behind developments e.g., the need to construct the security fence, so as to demonize Israel’s efforts to protect the lives of its citizens.

    Social justice does not involve the trivialization of genocide and Apartheid so as to deliberately smear a sovereign state that seeks to protect the lives of its people.

    Social justice does not seek to proclaim rejectionist narratives as unassailable truth while ignoring the historical evidence that debunks those narratives.

    Social justice respects the rights and needs of all peoples. Social justice seeks to present the most truthful account of history feasible.

    Mr. Logan’s one-sided opinions do not meet such standards. While I cannot nor will not comment on his other efforts, I can state with a high degree of confidence that Mr. Logan is not pursuing anything close to social justice when it comes to Arab-Israeli affairs. For that reason, the criticism his unbalanced (to be mild) rants has produced is well-deserved.

  11. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Don doth say… ‘Social justice does not entail treating the Jewish people as inferior. Yet, his rants deny the legitimacy and rights of the Jewish people.’

    I do not think the Jewish people are inferior, and quite the contrary to that. Don, both you and I agree that the Jewish people are superior! We have common ground here. Please don’t misstate my views.

  12. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    Tony wrote
    Don, stop ranting, Dude

    Grace wrote
    Actually, I’m impressed with Don’s vast knowledge of Middle Eastern affairs and, importantly, supporting his point of view with relevant and objective source material and documentation. Tony mostly rants and posts unsubstantiated assertions and accusations. I’d like to see Don become a member of this blog to provide some desperately-needed balance, objectivity and knowledge..

  13. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan wrote:

    ‘Don says that in his opinion… ‘4. The Jewish people have the same right to national expression (Zionism) as any other people has e.g., Palestinians have their own nationalism.’

    No they don’t, Don, and for the same reason that the South African Boers didn’t have an equal right to ‘their nationalism’ in Apartheid South Africa before it was dismantled for being a racist State just like your ‘Jewish State’ currently is.

    Once more, the context is missing. Let’s examine the differences:

    1. South Africa was a sovereign state. All of its citizens deserved their inherent rights. Hence, the Afrikaaners had no right to repress the majority population.

    2. The Palestine region was not a sovereign state. The issue was how to bring about sovereignty there.

    3. Sovereignty needed to address the core needs of the area’s two peoples (Jews and Arabs alike). It needed to respect their historical legitimacy and right to self-determination.

    4. A single-state solution was not feasible. Both peoples had irreconcilable differences. A low-level ethnic conflict was raging. A single-state solution was a recipe for a bloodbath.

    5. UNSCOP, much as the Peel Commission before it, concluded that a compromise in the form of partition was necessary. While partition would not accommodate the two peoples’ aspiration for the the entire territory, it did address their core need of granting each a sovereign state of their own.

    Those are the facts. One can read UNSCOP’s report for the details. One can read the newspapers from the time for background information on the conflict that was raging.

  14. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Well, Grace, that just goes to show how Don, in defending the superior Jewish race doesn’t have to rant, but I, in defending an inferior race, do rant. lol… It’s clown time again with the Zionist spam machine gun firing hard away at the blog. Go Jewish State! Go!

  15. Avatar Don says:

    Thank you for the very kind words, Grace.

    It is sad that some resort to doing little more than hurling epithets with no regard for the facts that govern the situation. They do so precisely because their wild charges have no merit.

  16. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan wrote:

    …that just goes to show how Don, in defending the superior Jewish race…

    A cheap diversionary tactic. Nowhere did I ever make any claims of racial or ethnic superiority, nor would I. It is your arguments that seek to strip the Jewish people of their fundamental rights (even that of defending themselves from attack) and deny them of their historical legitimacy in the region.

  17. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    The Zionist spam gun sez that… ‘2. The Palestine region was not a sovereign state. The issue was how to bring about sovereignty there.’

    Wrong. Palestine was an occupied region, occupied by colonialists (British, Turks, etc.). The Jewish Zionists simply took over that occupation in much the same way that the US took over from the French their imperialist enterprise in Vietnam.

  18. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    All your arguments, Don and Grace, are on behalf of the superior race, the Jewish people. They deserve the land and the inferior race does not.

  19. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    Tony wrote
    I agree that the Jewish people are superior!

    Grace wrote
    Well, after all, we are all rich and control the media, the international monetary system and pull the strings of the politicians in Washington like a puppeteer. It says so right there in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

  20. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    No, it says this when you create a ‘Jewish State’, Grace. No ‘protocols’ beyond that Star of David on the flag.

    Hey, I’m going to get the Cross put on a flag and start a movement to replace the Stars and Stripes. Good idea, Grace?

  21. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    “All your arguments, Don and Grace, are on behalf of the superior race, the Jewish people. They deserve the land and the inferior race does not. ”

    Jews are actually not a “race” but members of a religion. In fact, Israel rescued about 19,000 persecuted Ethiopian Jews. Palestinian Arabs do deserve their own land and were offered their own land way, way back in 1948, and continue to have the opportunity to turn sand into gold as the Israelis have done, but, they seem to be more interested in destroying the Israeli society than in building their own.

  22. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan wrote:

    Palestine was an occupied region, occupied by colonialists (British, Turks, etc.). The Jewish Zionists simply took over that occupation in much the same way that the US took over from the French their imperialist enterprise in Vietnam.

    The region, and a region is not a sovereign state, changed hands among various empires, most recently the Ottoman and then British Empires. There has never been a sovereign country called “Palestine.”

    The Ottoman Empire legalized Jewish immigration in 1906. Immigration remained legal through most of the duration of the British Mandate. As a result, Jewish immigrants were entitled the the same rights of any of the area’s other residents.

    After World War II, the issue of how to bring the territory to sovereignty arose. The British asked the UN to administer that task.

    There was no “occupation.” If anything, it was the Arab side who rejected any compromises that believed it was entitled to be the heir of the entire region, irrespective of the rights of the area’s Jewish people.

  23. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan wrote:

    All your arguments, Don and Grace, are on behalf of the superior race, the Jewish people. They deserve the land and the inferior race does not.

    Neither Grace nor I have introduced any racial supremacist theories. It is you who have invoked such theories. So much for the claim made that you advocate “social justice.”

  24. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    So you favor a religious state when you call for a ‘Jewish State’, Grace? How progressive of you! Let the whole world divide itself up into Jewish States, Christian States, Islamic States, Buddhist States, Hindu States!? Wow! Now I see just what you have been defending all along.

    Of course, only the superior Jewish religion will actually make the most of ‘the opportunity to turn sand into gold’, as you so poetically put it, Ms. Grace. The other more inferior religions just will not be able to do God’s work so well.

  25. Avatar Don says:

    Correct, Grace. Jews are not a race.

    Furthermore, the fact that Israel grants aliyah to Jews of all races debunks myths that Zionism or Israel is racist. Those who make such claims simply have no understanding of what they are discussing.

  26. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan wrote:

    So you favor a religious state when you call for a ‘Jewish State’, Grace? How progressive of you! Let the whole world divide itself up into Jewish States, Christian States, Islamic States, Buddhist States, Hindu States!? Wow! Now I see just what you have been defending all along.

    UNSCOP defined the Jewish people by more than religion. The definition was broader and it included cultural, traditional, and historical dimensions. The “religion only” distinction was not applicable.

    In its report, UNSCOP explained that the Arabs and Jews “are from different cultural milieux, and whose outlook, languages, religion and aspirations are separate.” In sum, the definition applied by UNSCOP was broader than one of religion alone.

  27. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Grace and Don? Two parts of the Zionist spamgun warfare project. One poses himself off as being some sort of Doctor Spock of Logic, while Grace poses herself off as Jesus Freak… make that the Moses Freak. Once again I have messed up… Mr. Spock due to my human emotions.

    Good work, Guy and Gal. You two make the Internet Troll State look just so pretty! The IDF as ITS… It’s all “Jewish State’ warfare.

    You can now plaster the site with your Zionism as I can no more ‘win’ at your game than I can stop the spam from entering my AOL email box. I am dying and dead beneath your deadly onslaught of DIME a message weaponry spam.

  28. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    Tony wrote: ‘Jewish State’

    Grace wrote
    You have a marked tendency to see everything through an anti-Israel bias and use tired, old diatribes and cliches to delegitimize Israel. Allow me to offer a more objective and informed context of the so-called Jewish State.

    If the more than 55 countries that make up the Organization of the Islamic Conference are entitled to recognition as Muslim states, and if the 22 members of the Arab League are universally accepted as Arab states, why should anyone have a problem with Israel as the world’s one Jewish state? In fact, there are many countries in which national identity and religion are linked. Argentinian law mandates government support for the Roman Catholic faith. Queen Elizabeth II is the supreme governor of the Church of England. In the Himalayan kingdom of Bhutan, the constitution proclaims Buddhism the nation’s “spiritual heritage.” The prevailing religion in Greece,” declares Section II of the Greek Constitution, “is that of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ.”

    In no region of the world do countries so routinely link their national character to a specific religion as in the Muslim Middle East. The flag of Saudi Arabia features the shahada – the Islamic declaration of faith – in white Arabic script on a green background; on the Iranian flag, the Islamic phrase “Allahu Akbar” (God is great”) appears 22 times. And then there is the Palestinian Authority, whose Basic Law provides in Article 4 that “Islam is the official religion in Palestine.”

    As for your other tired slur of Israel’s having “stolen Arab land”, the Jewish connection to Palestine is a matter not just of rich historical fact, but of international law. When the League of Nations entrusted Britain with the Mandate for Palestine in 1922, it expressly recognized “the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine” and the rightfulness of “reconstituting their national home in that country.” By that point, Britain had already transferred 80 percent of historic Palestine to Arab rule – today’s Muslim kingdom of Jordan. All that remained for a Jewish state was the residual 20 percent. But there, at least, it was clear that the Jewish community was “in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance,” as Winston Churchill wrote at the time. On balance, I have no problem with a Jewish state, nor do most Amricans.

  29. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan,

    There is no “game.” Instead a number of us have chosen to address the baseless allegations and historical distortions ranging from claims that Israel is a “Nazi state” to charges of Israel’s carrying out genocide with which Thomas Mc, Eric, and you have polluted this site.

  30. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    The well-known conspiracy of Jews to attain world domination now includes the Internet and blogs. lol

  31. Avatar Don says:

    Grace,

    Many thanks for introducing facts into this thread. They will be helpful to anyone who comes across this thread, has an open-mind, is tolerant, and has an interest in learning more.

  32. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    Don: “Grace, Many thanks for introducing facts into this thread. They will be helpful to anyone who comes across this thread, has an open-mind, is tolerant, and has an interest in learning more”

    Grace: Don, I’m not worthy. I am in awe of your encyclopedic knowledge. Gotta give these guys credit, though, for not censoring anything. Hey, a little controversy is good for traffic. lol

  33. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Here once again is Thomas Mc link…. His website is a whole lot better reading than this nasty thread has been turned into by the Israeli spam division machine…

    http://thomasmc.com/news.htm

    Check it out!

  34. Avatar Don says:

    Thomas Mc bears complete responsibility for his outrageous analogies here. That he takes a slightly softer tone elsewhere makes little difference as to his remarks here.

    After all, he made no effort whatsoever to disown his references to Israel as a “Nazi state” or his repugnant claim that Israel is preparing for a “Final Solution.” In fact, he declared, “If you don’t like it, don’t read it…” and “I call a spade a spade.”

    Later, he ran when light was turned onto his hateful outburst. As he wrapped himself in his comments in his responses in this thread, he deserves all the criticism he has received.

  35. Avatar Don says:

    Thanks again for the generous compliment, Grace. I agree with you about the lack of censorship.

  36. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Don, you are beginning to convince that Thomas was exactly right spot on. I love that Dummy talking to Ventriloquist routine you got there!

  37. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan,

    You’ve never repudiated both the content and title of Tom Mc’s hateful commentary. In fact, you just publicized his website a short while ago. Therefore, by stating “you are beginning to convince (sic) that Thomas was exactly right…” is not a new development. Throughout this thread you have taken positions that are substantively similar to his. He accused Israel of “preparing for a Final Solution.” You accused Israel of genocide. He described Israel as a “Nazi state.” You described it as an “Apartheid” state.

  38. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    That’s just not true, Don. I have said, and will say once again, that alone Israel’s crimes pale in comparison to both Nazi Germany’s crimes and that of the US government’s crimes, which is the ‘Jewish State’s primary pusher.

    Get it straight now. You see, Don, Thomas Mc is one person and I another person, and our opinions are not always the same. For example, I would never say that you and Mary are exact clones. Look how many differences of opinion you two have both had in the short time you two have both been posting here at Not My Tribe.

    Now, just when do you go off work again?

  39. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    “Israel…preparing for a Final Solution”

    I’ll take the bait long enough to try to ‘splain to you that if Israel wanted to commit genocide, she could easily have done so with the push of a button, so, let’s try to maintain a modicum of rationality of thought. Pulling up stakes in Gaza and leaving the Palestinians state-of-the-art vegetable greenhouses with the intent that the Palestinians feed themselves (Which, incidentally, they proceeded to torch in their continuing efforts to inflict suffering upon themselves) and a modern hospital (The very hospital Hamas had sought refuge in) would certainly run counter to any genocidal objectives. Dropping leaflets in Gaza and contacting Palestinians by phone about military actions would hamper genocidal plans. Signing and maintaining a peace treaty with her longtime enemy in the PLO and signing multiple ceasefires with her enemy in Hamas would also tend to fly in the face of your expectations for mass murder. I think at this juncture, anyone reading your wild and unfounded accusations of genocide are just rolling their eyes wondering what is in the water in Colorado.

  40. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan,

    I didn’t say that you were the same person. I said that your positions are substantively similar.

    To clarify things:

    1. Do you reject the content of Thomas Mc’s message?
    2. Do you recognize that Israel is not carrying out genocide or ethnic cleansing?

  41. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Don, of course the ‘Jewish State’ is carrying out ethnic cleansing, but to compare it to the same scale of how the Nazi’s ethnically cleansed their ‘Aryan State’ is wrong. We also well know together (you too Mary!) that the Australians, Canadians, and New Zealanders ethnically cleansed their English speaking ‘States’, too, do we not?

    What I want to know is why none of us are talking about all the genocides the US government has committed post WW2? Thomas, do you have any answer to that? Well he done did disappear, it seems? Damn ‘Nazi!’ Only a Nazi would leave me here all alone with you nice folk… I gotta life, you know!

  42. Avatar Don says:

    Tony Logan,

    You had an opportunity to clearly dissociate from Thomas Mc’s hateful message. You did not.

    You evaded the question about rejecting the content of Thomas Mc’s message. You remained silent on the issue of genocide. You accused Israel of carrying out ethnic cleansing.

    With respect to ethnic cleasning, the term “ethnic cleansing” first gained international usage during the Balkans civil war (Serbia, Croatia, and Bosnia) during the early 1990s. Andrew Bell-Fialkoff, formerly a Research Fellow at the Center for the Study of Small States, has extensively studied historic events that might fit the definition of ethnic cleansing. He provided the following definition:

    [i]At the most general level…ethnic cleansing can be understood as the expulsion of an “undesirable” population from a given territory due to religious or ethnic discrimination, political, strategic or ideological considerations, or a combination of these.[/i]

    Israel has not engaged in the expulsion of Arabs from its boundaries. It is not engaging in such practices. Most of Israel’s non-Jewish population (now 1.5 million) is comprised of Arabs.

    Mr. Bell-Fialkoff’s historical research that goes back Assyrian ruler Tiglath-Pileser III (745-727 B.C.) does not cite Israel as ever having engaged in what can be defined as ethnic cleansing.

    If one is interested in learning more about ethnic cleansing, one can reference a summary of his work that was published in Foreign Affairs. The citation is as follows: Andrew Bell-Fialkoff, “A Brief History of Ethnic Cleansing,” [i]Foreign Affairs[/i], Summer 1993.

  43. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    Grace, Mary, Don, and David. Hi, I am Bob.

    Tony is allowing me to respond using his name since I do not have an email of my own. Glad to meet all of you online.

    BTW, Tony says that when this thread reaches 100 comments on it, that he plans to drop an experimental weapon of some kind on it! Good luck! I hope nobody gets too burned when he does! But otherwise he says he might drop dead from this stultifying weapon that the ‘Internet Megaphone’ is using.

  44. Avatar Don says:

    Typo. Israel’s non-Jewish population is 1.7 million.

  45. Avatar Don says:

    Welcome aboard, Bob.

  46. Avatar Grace Cohen says:

    Tony Logan, your reputation for a complete lack of knowledge about what you speak regarding Israel remains unblemished with your new reckless accusationsof ethnic cleansing. To borrow from the late Joseph Welch to Sen. Joseph McCarthy, have you no shame? I do hope Mr. Logan appreciates the free education being given him, this time on the matter of Israel and ethnic cleansing, about which he speaks but about which he knows nothing.

    Were it true that Israel is guilty of “ethnic cleansing” of Arabs, then Israel is perhaps the least efficient ethnic cleanser in the history of mankind.

    In 1947 about 740,000 Palestinians lived in the British Mandate for Palestine. Today, the Arab residents of the West Bank and Gaza, together with Arab citizens of Israel, comprise a total of over 5 million Palestinians (altogether over 9 million people worldwide refer to themselves as Palestinian.)

    Drazen Petrovic defines ethnic cleansing as “a well-defined policy of a particular group of persons to systematically eliminate another group from a given territory.” By this definition, only one type of ethnic cleansing has occurred in the Arab-Israeli conflict – that of the Jews of Asia and North Africa. Whereas before 1948 there were nearly 900,000 Jews living in Arab lands, by 2001 only 6,500 remained. Those who claim Israel carried out ethnic cleansing of Arabs can point to no official command to that effect. Jewish ethnic cleansing from Arab lands, on the other hand, was often official state policy. Jews were formally expelled from many areas in the Arab world. The Arab League released a statement urging Arab governments to facilitate the exit of Jews from Arab countries, a resolution which was carried out through a series of punitive measures and discriminatory decrees that made it untenable for Jews to remain in their native lands.

    On May 16, 1948, The New York Times recorded a series of measures taken by the Arab League to marginalize and persecute the Jewish residents of Arab League member states. It reported on the “text of a law drafted by the Political Committee of the Arab League, which was intended to govern the legal status of Jewish residents of Arab League countries. It provides that, beginning on an unspecified date, all Jews except citizens of non-Arab states would be considered ‘members of the Jewish minority state of Palestine.’ Their bank accounts would be frozen and used to finance resistance to ‘Zionist ambitions in Palestine.’ Jews believed to be active Zionists would be interned and their assets confiscated.”

    IN 1951, the Iraqi government passed legislation that made affiliation with Zionism a felony and ordered “the expulsion of Jews who refused to sign a statement of anti-Zionism.” This pushed tens of thousands of Jews to leave Iraq, while much of their property was confiscated by the state.

    In 1967, many Egyptian Jews were detained and tortured, and Jewish homes confiscated. In Libya that year, the government “urged the Jews to leave the country temporarily,” permitting each to take one suitcase and the equivalent of $50.

    In 1970, the Libyan government issued new laws confiscating all the assets of Libya’s Jews, issuing in their stead 15-year bonds. But when the bonds matured, no compensation was paid. Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi justified this on the grounds that “the alignment of the Jews with Israel, the Arab nations’ enemy, has forfeited their right to compensation.”

    Just a few examples of what would became common measures throughout the Arab world – not to mention the pogroms and attacks on Jews and their institutions that drove a major part of the Jewish exodus.

    THE ECONOMIC suffering on the part of the two refugee populations was equally lopsided. According to the study “The Palestinian Refugee Issue: Rhetoric vs. Reality” by former CIA and State Department Treasury official Sidney Zabludoff in the Jewish Political Studies Review, the value of assets lost by both refugee populations is strikingly uneven.

    Zabludoff uses data from John Measham Berncastle, who in the early 1950s, under the aegis of the newly formed United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine (UNCCP), undertook the task of calculating the assets of the Palestinian refugees. Zabludoff calculates that their assets were worth $3.9 billion in today’s currency.

    The Jewish refugees, being greater in number and more urban, had almost double those assets.

    On top of this equation, it must be taken into account that Israel returned over 90 percent of blocked bank accounts, safe deposit boxes and other items belonging to Palestinian refugees during the 1950s. This considerably diminishes the UNCCP calculations.

    THESE facts are conveniently “forgotten” or “overlooked”, leaving the way open for Israel-bashers like Tony and others to omit any mention of the Middle East’s greatest ethnic cleansing.

    However, a few recent events are clearing the world community’s perception of this history. On April 1, 2008, the US Congress adopted Resolution 185, which for the first time recognizes Jewish refugees from Arab countries. It urges that the president and US officials participating in Middle East discussions ensure that any reference to Palestinian refugees “also include a similarly explicit reference to the resolution of the issue of Jewish refugees from Arab countries.”

    Just as importantly, the first-ever hearing in the British parliament on the subject of Jewish refugees from Arab countries takes place today in the House of Lords. It will be convened by Labor MP John Mann and Lord Anderson of Swansea, a joint briefing organized by Justice for Jews from Arab Countries (JJAC) in association with the Board of Deputies of British Jews.

    Greater recognition of the refugee issue and the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the wider Arab world will bring clearer definition of the area’s history to a greater number of people.

    A people cannot be said to have been “ethnically cleansed” from an area in which it has grown at double the rate of its geographic neighbors. On the other hand, a people that lost more than 150 times its number from an area over the course of a few decades can make a very strong case for having undergone ethnic cleansing.

    Henceforth, please refrain from associating Israelis with ethnic cleansing unless in the context of Jews, themselves, being the victims of it.

  47. Avatar Don says:

    In yet another example of the acts of aggression being carried out against Israel to which Israel has an inherent right of self-defense, terrorists fired four rockets into Israel today.

    On Saturday morning, terrorists fired a rocket at Israel from the Gaza Strip. Unlike with past rocket attacks following Operation Cast Lead, Israel failed to respond. Today, Gaza’s terrorist organizations stepped up their attacks.

    The Jerusalem Post reported:

    Gaza terrorists breached the cease-fire once again early Sunday morning, firing four Kassam rockets, one of which landed between two kindergartens in the Eshkol region.

    Another two rockets hit open areas nearby and a fourth hit the Sdot Negev region.

    The increased terrorist activity likely has two purposes:

    1. To further test the limits of Israel’s restraint.
    2. To demonstrate to Iran that its proxy is continuing “resistance” consistent with Iran’s national objectives, as the increased attacks come at a time when the Hamas terrorist organization’s leader Khaled Mashaal is in Tehran for meetings with Iran’s leadership in a bid to gain increased support.

    Israel needs to respond to this latest act of aggression. Israel can ill-afford to waver in its express commitment to respond to every terrorist attack. Otherwise, the frequency of attacks would likely increase as terrorists conclude that Israel’s commitment is not credible. Israel’s failure to respond after Saturday’s attack may well have contributed to Gaza’s terrorists stepping up their attacks today.

    It will be interesting to see if Israel’s critics in this thread condemn the terrorists for their latest attacks.

  48. Avatar Tony Logan says:

    I think the kids are finally asleep…. It’s very late over there from where they write. Good night and sleep tight… children.

  49. Avatar Alicia Kirsch says:

    Yeah, those bad Israelis are so terrible, look how much Palestinians’ lives have improved since they left and Gaza fell to Hamas LOL

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0812/p07s02-wome.html

    “I want [the Israelis] to come back,” says Riyad al-Laham, an unemployed father of eight who worked in the area’s Jewish settlements for nearly 20 years. “All the Mawassi people used to work in the settlements and make good money. Three years ago, before Israel withdrew, Mawassi was a town of fertile corn crops and greenhouses, which – like the ones in the Jewish settlements – grew cherry tomatoes, sweet peppers, and strawberries. Now, in the ethnic Palestinian section of town, nearly half the land lies barren.

    Now there is nothing to do. Even our own agricultural land is barren.” Only shells remain of many of the greenhouses that were stripped of valuable materials.

    A city that fed itself with its produce and the money its men made from working with the settlers, Mawassi is now dependent on food handouts from the United Nations.

    One main reason that life is worse now, say many villagers, is the lack of attention paid to Mawassi by both the previous Fatah and current Hamas governments since the Israeli withdrawal. The Israelis “used to take responsibility for us as occupiers,” Riyad Laham says. “Neither [Hamas nor Fatah] knocked on the doors to ask what we need. People are fed up…. We have become beggars.

  50. Avatar Don says:

    As those accusing Israel of “preparing a Final Solution” or being responsible for genocide have little notion concerning the horrors of the genocide, the following is a link to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum’s link on the Final Solution: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005151

    Anyone who understands the horrific nature of genocide would reject the vicious and unfounded allegations that Israel is “preparing a Final Solution” or is responsible for genocide.

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