Tonight at book club, I overheard two of my girlfriends discussing their children’s upcoming “birthright” trips to Israel. I’d never heard of a birthright trip, but trusty Google knew all about it.
From their website:
Taglit-Birthright Israel provides the gift of first time, peer group, educational trips to Israel for Jewish young adults ages 18 to 26. Taglit-Birthright Israel’s founders created this program to send thousands of young Jewish adults from all over the world to Israel as a gift in order to diminish the growing division between Israel and Jewish communities around the world; to strengthen the sense of solidarity among world Jewry; and to strengthen participants’ personal Jewish identity and connection to the Jewish people.
The gift of the 10-day trip is being provided by our partners: private philanthropists through the Birthright Israel Foundation; the people of Israel through the Government of Israel; and Jewish communities around the world (North American Jewish Federations through the United Jewish Communities (UJC).
The Birthright Israel Foundation is generously supported by the following Jewish philanthropic partners: S. Daniel Abraham, The Abramson Family Foundation, Dr. Miriam and Sheldon G. Adelson, The Andrea and Charles Bronfman Philanthropies, Edgar M. Bronfman, Circle of Service Foundation, Susie and Michael Gelman, Richard and Rhoda Goldman Foundation, David and Ruth Gottesman, The Harold Grinspoon Foundation, Hadassah – The Women’s Zionist Organization of America, Susan and Roger Hertog, Ronald S. Lauder, The Marcus Foundation- Bernie Marcus, Jane and Daniel Och, The Samberg Family Foundation, Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation, Judy and Michael Steinhardt, The Wasserman Foundation, Leslie and Abigail Wexner and The Wexner Foundation, Karen and Gary Winnick in North America; Marc Rich in Europe.
Pretty cool, huh?
Thank you for your short commentary, Ms. Walden. It provides a refreshing contrast from a lot of the recent, unfortunate, blogging at NMT.
I hope none of those philanthropists invested with Madoff.
There is nothing ‘cool’ about this at all, Marie. What makes you or Don think that American adults have some sort of ‘birthright to land that was stolen away from expelled people who are now living in sordid ghetto refugee camps in the Occupied Territories or other foreign lands? What about their birthright?
Don can get all preachy and sanctimonious about Eric’s blind spot towards his so-called questioning of the details of the Jewish Holocaust and then be guilty of just as huge a blind spot towards the ongoing oppression of Israel’s victims, the Palestinians.
Israel is a legitimate state and Jewish homeland, no matter what detractors may say, and, so, Jews from around the world converging on the land of the Jewish people is a natural yearning. A history of persecution has bonded Jews perhaps as no other people. It’s unfortunate that the Palestinians have been living in refugee camps for decades. It’s certainly not because of a lack of funds as the Pals have been receiving billions of dollars in aid. Part of the reason is the corrupt Fatah and Hamas regimes that have stolen much of the money to subsidize lavish lifestyles. Another reason is wasting much time and effort since1948 being consumed with trying to take down Israel rather than in building themselves up. When Pals love their children, and cease raising them to become suicide bombers instead of doctors and engineers, more than they hate Israel, perhaps then they’ll be able to lift themselves up from their misery. That spirit has to come from within.
Ron and Don’s own brand of home spun Holocaust Denialism…
Yuck.
Tony,
I’m not going to go into great detail in Ms. Walden’s thread. That the initiative gives youth a chance to visit Israel and in doing so establish cultural bonds, understanding, and awareness is a positive thing.
With respect to the historic Palestinian-Israeli dispute, suffice it to say that I favor a two-state solution that would accommodate the core needs of Israelis and Palestinians alike. I hope that the diplomatic process will produce such an outcome in coming years, so that Israel and a Palestinian state can coexist in peace and cooperate in broad areas of shared interest.
P.S. Apologies to Ms. Walden for my having to reply on an issue she did not raise in her blog entry.
Actually, I think that she did raise this issue by her post, Don. Why talk of supposed ‘birthrights’ for American raised teenagers while trying to deny others their much more real birthrights? That is at the heart of the matter.
The Pals were offered a homeland many times, however, only democracies are entitled to homelands; repressive, despotic dictatorships are immoral and should not be accorded their own homeland. So, until the Pals establish free and democratic governance, it would be morally reprehensible to set aside any land for them.
That’s a new one, Ron! So Your Lordship only awards ‘Homelands’ to democracies? That’s about the funniest thing I have ever heard a Zionist come up with! Good work! Then how come the Iroquois don’t have one, or the Cherokee?
It’s not “a new one,” actually. The Ayn Rand Institute is such a proponent of the concept that immoral regimes donot merit their own “homeland” and I tend to agree, at least philosophically if not in practice. There is no morality in Hamas ripping off humanitarian aid or infiltrating schools and hospitals or in abusing children by training them to become “martyrs” or in digging tunnels for weappons smuggling. Then, there is the preaching of genocide against Israel as well as unprovoked military attacks. I could go on and on. Such perversity and barbarism should not be rewarded with a homeland. God created the Earth and God does not want his land to be gifted to murderous thugs.
‘God created the Earth and God does not want his land to be gifted to murderous thugs.’
So the Ayn Rand Institute now certifies poeple who God has Chosen to have Homelands? Very nice. You crack me up, Ron! Got any other jokes to give out to us?
The idea of establishing yet another despotic and repressive regime on the planet, esp. in the Middle East, is highly problematic morally. To give consent to a Hamas or a Fatah or some other group of bandits to oppress their people and deny them basic human rights would be repulsive. You live under Hamas and then get back to me on the ethics of formalizing their abusive tactics. The Pals should stand up for their rights.
As someone opposed to torture, I would think you would not be supportive of rewarding Hamas, who torture and do far worse as a matter of routine. Doing so, in effect, sanctions torture and I and many others would be deeply offended. So, no homeland to the Pals until they demonstrate the will to establish a democratic government. They can look to Israel for inspiration.
Tony, clearly this “gift” is designed to convert young apathetic American Jews into full-blown Zionists (sorry, Don). I knew you would spin it better than I.
True, Marie this ‘Birthright Israel’ program is the equivalent of US Junior ROTC in the high schools and universities, but for Israeli military and religious fanatic wannabes instead of ‘USA, USA, USA!’ fanatics. A be all the shit you can be program!
And Ron, I already know kind of what it would be like living in Israel. It would be most exactly like living in the fucking US, wouldn’t it? Isn’t Israel an extension of our world destroying, resource guzzling, stupid and arrogant asshole abundant US of A? Ron, isn’t it?
I’d hate to be living in this sort of place and want Out of it NOW. Done my time already surrounded by assholes all around. Done my time with all the Dons, Rons, and Michaels being next to being entirely all my neighbors. Oh, and all the Grace, Marys, and Little Lambs out there, too.
Sick of the whole stupid lot of you, to be right frank. Sign me up in Hamas today! PLEASE! Don’t need a Vistaril. Don’t need a Prozac. Don’t need a counsellor. Give me HAMAS, Ron, you …. I won’t be impolite….. you…..
lovable Nazi….
Israel “guzzling” resources? Considering Israel took a piece of crap land that had no resources and transformed it, Israel has, in effect, created their own resources where there once were none. So, I believe, on balance, Israeli creates far more resources than she depletes. Israel invented desalination sytems that purify water, so, Israelis have the right to as much water as they can drink. Israelis turned rotting land into orange groves, so Israelis can eat as much food from the land as they can eat. Israel generates its own electricity, so, they can use as much energy as need be. A consortium of scientists and entrepreneurs in Israel are close to perfecting a revolutionary system for making fully electric cars practical and Israeli scientists are closer to discovering a cure for cancer than any other country, including the US. So, I don’t begrudge Israelis’ use of resources given Israel has made such a monumental contribution to the advancement of civilization.
Tony, I’ll gladly pay for your one-way ticket to Hamastan.
Israel is the primary guzzler of US foreign aid and you know it. The ‘milk and honey’ comes from the US, which guzzles it up from the rest of the world in the first place. Don’t you get tired of playing stupid, Ron?
I am opposed to all aid to Israel except for military assitance. I don’t think it’s in Israel’s interests to be so beholden to the US. I give creidt, though, to Israel for putting foreign aid to good use in developing one of the most advanced nations on the planet. For instance, Israel has more tech companies listed on NASDAQ than any other country except for the US. How many Muslim or Arab companies are on the NASDAQ? Answer: You guessed it, a BIG ZERO. Those Israeli companies fulfill global needs. Arab nations contribute nothing to the world. What has Fatah done with those billions in aid given them, except build villas and buy Mercedes, and pay for Arafat’s wife’s lavish lifestyle in Paris.
‘Arab nations contribute nothing to the world.’
Thanks, Ron, for making your racism blatantly clear. Next thing you know though, you’ll be lecturing others about ‘antisemitism’. I mean without a doubt…. lol.
I’m stating a fact about the lack of modernity and industrialization in the Arab world and, in doing so, am echoing Tom Friedman’s sentiments that oil has stunted the Arab world. To paraphrase Friedman, the stupid-ass Saudis think Israeli jets are flying over their territory while spying on them when in reality, those Israeli jets are carrying Israeli businessmen headed to America, Europe and Asia to forge billion dollar business deals.
Incidentally, out of a population of over 1.5 BILLION Muslims, of which 350 million are Arab, only 6 have won Nobel Prizes. This is not a typo: Only 6 Muslims have won Nobel Prizes. In contrast, there are merely 13 milion Jews worldwide and 139 Nobel Prizes have been awarded to Jews.
Yes, Ron. You are making clear who you think is the world’s Supreme Master race.
Judaism in a religion encompassing many races, although, itself, not a race.
Ronald,
Bernard Lewis, perhaps the foremost Near East historian, has also discussed how dependence on oil helped sustain illiberal regimes. Those states could rely on oil revenues for income rather than taxation. Freed of worries of taxation, they had little incentive to accommodate the concerns of taxpayers. In short, despite the wealth it provided in some parts of the Arab world, oil stunted economic and political development.
I took courses with Prof. Lewis while at Princeton. His book on the troubles Islam is facing, “What Went Wrong,” talks about how the downfall of Islamic influence is at the root of Islamic rage today. The real problem with the Arab and Muslim worlds is that they continue to have a bedouin mentality and, thus, are ill-equipped to deal with the modern world. It is noble for them to live in the 7th century rather than the 21st century. The real cause of Arab animosity toward Israel has nothing to do with dispossessed land and that favorite accusation of “occupation” blah blah blah, and has everything to do with rage against the massive strides Israelis have made in just 60 years, humiliating Arabs and leaving them in the dust. You never heard outrage over Jordanian and Egyptian oppression of Palestinians during the 20 years they controlled the “Palestinian territories” Tom Friedman also points out in a column that oil has been more of a curse to the Arab world than a blessing as it has caused them to become complacent (lazy), which is why the Arab world has such a low level of development and industrializaton. I mean, when was the last time you picked up a product and saw it was made in Syria or Egypt or Jordan? Warren Buffett recently purchased an Israeli-based industrial company and marveled at how advanced Israel has become in such a short amount of time. This, while the Saudis’ favorite activity is camel racing.
This is what really drives the Arabs over the edge about Israel…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV3W_86NTYA
Ms. Walden,
In that case, we respectfully disagree with respect to the Birthright program. One should consider the importance a sense of community has played in the lives of people. The Jewish diaspora and the Chinese diaspora offer two examples of the role such bonds can play in preserving and cultivating ties that can enrich lives and, in cases, even provide a range of economic and social opportunities.
Ronald,
You were taught by one of the best in his profession. What Went Wrong is a must-read for anyone who is serious about gaining insight and understanding into Middle Eastern affairs and the broader evolution that has occurred within the Islamic world.
Children born on another continent to have a “birthright” to lands on another? Do the children of Palestine have no birthright at all?
This reminds me of “White Man’s Burden,” the birthright of responsibility the Britons felt for having to colonize the third world because the dark skinned peoples couldn’t look after themselves, only cared about camel racing, etc.
And it sure resembles the American birthright of “Manifest Destiny,” when white man justified westward expansion unto the lands of the Native Americans, again because white settlers could use the land much more productively than people who only cared about camel races.
The troubles the Arabs are face are the same as they were before the arrival of Britain, France, the US, and Israel. They face an occupying colonial enterprise just like in the days of the Ottoman Empire.
But the Europeans/ Americans are unlike the Turks in some key ways. The Turks were a feudalistic Empire, where as the European/ Americans are not. The Turks at least shared the same religion with the Arabs, whereas the Europeans come with other ‘faiths’ on hand while proclaiming their project to be actually secular. The Turks had no pretense towards democracy, where as the Europeans come using democracy as a shroud for their destructive capitalism. The Turks were a regional enemy, where as the Europeans/ Americans come from another planet, so to speak.
When it really comes down to it, Ron and Don are nothing more than cheerleaders for their home team. All their pretense to being educated and all that, quickly falls apart like just so much dried and powdered bullshit.
Eric,
Where your argument fails is that you assume that the idea that strengthening cultural ties between Israel and the world’s Jewish diaspora is a bad thing that negates the fundamental rights of others. The “Birthright Israel” project does no such thing.
The initiative does not deny Palestinian people their right to self-determination. It does not bar the Palestinian people from eventually having their own sovereign state that would coexist in peace with Israel. It does not require Israel’s “expansion.”
The two party state idea was always a forced compromise that was urged onto Palestinians as being all they could somehow now ever get for what was stolen from them by the ‘Jewish State’s chosen people. It isn’t even that any more, but more like an illusory mirage that Zionist cheerleaders like Don hold out of a stick to present their supposed liberal credentials.
A singular multi-national secular state that includes the right to return of expelled Palestinians is the only just road to obtaining a Peaceful Middle East. The Jewish population fears that though, since they expelled so many other people off the land they now use.
This comment is directed to that anti-Semitic piece of shit, Tony Logan:
Israel wasn’t “stolen” from the Palestinians, you cocksucking faggot. Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire, and was ceded to the British when the Ottoman Empire collapsed at the end of WWI. As for the West Bank, it was part of Jordan, and Gaza was part of Egypt, both of which were conquered by the Israelis in the Six-Day War, which was started by Gamal Abdul Nasser when it blockaded the Gulf of Aqaba.
I don’t feel very sorry for a bunch of terrorists who deliberately kill little kids. They can all burn in Hell, with you, asswipe, right next to them.
Fuck you.
The Palestinian attitude about Israel is : If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em.
Joe, are you the new combined Lawyer Don and ‘Fuck ‘Em Ron, for our blog? Welcome.
Tony,
A single-state solution was not feasible due to irreconcilable differences among the area’s two peoples and what amounted to an ethnic conflict that was underway. Those historic realities cannot be ignored.
From the Peel Commission (1937):
An irrepressible conflict has arisen between two national communities within the narrow bounds of one small country. There is no common ground between them. Their national aspirations are incompatible. The Arabs desire to revive the traditions of the Arab golden age. The Jews desire to show what they can achieve when restored to the land in which the Jewish nation was born. Neither of the two national ideals permits of combination in the service of a single State.
The conflict has grown steadily more bitter since 1920 and the process will continue. Conditions inside Palestine especially the systems of education, are strengthening the national sentiment of the two peoples. The bigger and more prosperous they grow the greater will be their political ambitions, and the conflict is aggravated by the uncertainty of the future.
From the UN Special Committee on Palestine (1947):
The basic premise underlying the partition proposal is that the claims to Palestine of the Arabs and Jews, both possessing validity, are irreconcilable, and that among all of the solutions advanced, partition will provide the most realistic and practicable settlement, and is the most likely to afford a workable basis for meting in part the claims and national aspirations of both parties…
The basic conflict in Palestine is a clash of two intense nationalisms…
Only by means of partition can these conflicting national aspirations find substantial expression and qualify both peoples to take their places as independent nations in the international community and in the United Nations.
Today, the original intent of the partition plan can still be realized by the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state that would coexist in peace with Israel. A negotiated outcome offers the best prospect for that development.
I believe Israel’s president Shimon Peres put it well in yesterday’s op-ed piece in The Washington Post. He wrote:
Establishing a single multinational country is a tenuous path that does not bode well for peace but, rather, enforces the conflict’s perpetuation. Lebanon, ravaged by bloodshed and instability, represents only one of many examples of an undesirable quagmire of this nature.
The difficulties of a two-state solution are numerous, but it remains the only realistic and moral formula to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict…
The Jewish people want and deserve to live in peace in their rightful, historical homeland. The Palestinian people want and deserve their own land, their own political institutions and their right to self-determination. It is vital that this cause be based on the prospect of coexistence between Jews and Arabs, which translates into cooperation in fields such as the economy, tourism, the environment and defense. Achieving all this will be possible only by granting each people its own state and borders, to enable their citizens to pray according to their faiths, cultivate their cultures, speak their own languages and safeguard their heritages.
‘A single-state solution was not feasible due to irreconcilable differences among the area’s two peoples and what amounted to an ethnic conflict that was underway. Those historic realities cannot be ignored.’
Sure, Don, there is no ‘single state solution’ with a people who consider their claim to an area to be the only thing that matters and to Hell with the others. The Nazis didn’t believe in a ‘solution’ of that sort to a ‘problem’ of their own creation in Europe either and so began to do what they did, deciding that that new reality would be where they would come out ahead even in their supposed total defeat. I think that the Zionists have much the same mentality.
Like the ‘Jewish Question’, the ‘problem’ of One State- Two State? being looked at is all artificial and made by those trying to simply pull a fast one on the world. A One State Solution doesn’t have to be constructed or agreed to. All it would take is for Jewish citizens of Israel simply begin to treat
Palestinians as equals instead of some ugly burden on their ‘Chosen’ society that they must be rid of. It is as simple as that, Don. Because of the US Empire’s interference, the Jewish population of Israel has refused to do that though, and instead has hardened itself for new atrocities in the name of ‘Jewish superiority’ which is what Israel has become completely all about. Palestinian Arabs are nothing, Jews are everything, you know?
Tony,
The problem is that you seek an ideal world that does not exist and never has existed. Ethnic conflict is very real.
Post-Tito Yugoslavia could not survive as a single multiethnic state. Had Britain created a single South Asian state that encompassed present-day India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, there would likely have been enormous bloodshed far beyond what actually occurred. Ongoing tribal conflicts in parts of Africa further illustrate the reality of ethnic conflict.
A good solution that accommodates the core needs of peoples while falling short of their full aspirations, which are in conflict, is far better than the pursuit of a perfect solution that ignores irreconcilable differences, and therefore, is not feasible.
As our visitors have taken pains to point out, Judaism is not an ethnicity. So much for “Ethnic Conflict!”
The struggle between Israeli Jews and Palestinians is between white European occupiers and the people whose farms and orchards were and are still being taken. The “birthright” program is 2) recruiting more Jewish settlers to populate Israel’s expansion, and 1) solidifying support for continued American funding for weapons to defend this technically anti-Semitic colony.
I think the Arab states should be singled out for their contemptuous treatment of the Palestinians. A contributing factor to the Pals living in refugee camps for over a half century is the Arab states wanting noooo part of them, going so far as denying them citizenship. Egypt has closed off their border to Gaza. Jordan and Egypt denied the Pals nationhood when they occupied Gaza and the West Bank for many years. Where’s the love?
‘Post-Tito Yugoslavia could not survive as a single multiethnic state.’
That is not true, Don. Yugoslavia was torn apart by outsiders the same as now these same outsiders are tearing the Middle East apart. They came down out of the hills like a pack of wild wolves and dismembered Yugoslavia. They played the different ethnic groups all against each other.
Almost all educated Arabs, Persians, Turks, and other Muslim peoples know that they face a similar scenario with their situation now and simply do not see the Jewish population of Israel as in any way being the main problem for their peoples. That though is not the way that the corporate world and its US Empire try to present the issue though.
Yes, there is never going to be enough fighting amongst themselves in the Muslim World for Zionists like Ron to be happy.
I wonder why such an Expert on the Middle East doesn’t just Join The IDF.
I mean, he has a Goy name, sure…
…but the IDF is not merely Drafting Israelis into their Vassal-State Puppet Storm Troopers, one of the reasons the AIPAC don’t just emigrate to Israel, (they prefer to have others do their fighting for them)
(just like all the other ChickenHawks who endorse the Bush Doctrine, including George Bush himself)
they also enlist qualified Goyim into their service.
So if he wants to volunteer to go to Gaza and murder babies, I’m sure they’ll have a place for him.
Eric,
You are oversimplifying. Judaism is a religion. The Jewish people is a category that is broader than religion, alone. For example, UNSCOP wrote that the Jewish and Arab people in the Palestine region “are from different cultural milieux, and whose outlook, languages, religion and aspirations are separate.”
And “milieux” means “center” Don. It’s French, from the center of Europe, from whence the Jewish people bring their differing outlook about who should get the spoils of the recently made departed Palestinians.
Eric,
The Jewish population was comprised of a group of Jewish people who had continually resided in the region for generations and legal immigrants from the worldwide Jewish diaspora. The Jewish population shared historical legitimacy and a right to self-determination with the Arab population.
The Palestinians are terrorists, nobody wants them, they have no place in Israel. Let them rot.
Yes, but it’s not the Jewish population being dispossessed.
And the “Arab” as in “merely Subhuman rebranded arabs” population is quite solidly mixed Hebraic tribes rather than Arabic.
I know racial purity is a big issue, but to me it’s a Big Silly Issue.
And in the context of Killing people over racial or ethnic differences, that’s where charges of Genocide come in.
It doesn’t materialize from out the ether.
Judah has no more claim to the title of “Israel” than any of the other tribes.
Tony warned me once of the dangers of discussions involving biblical history with bible thumpers.
He should have warned YOU.
You want to see how difficult that could be?
I’m always generous with my free gifts of Biblical Knowledge.
Earlier in the week there was a Bible movie about Samson and Gideon.
Gideon was portrayed as, in the description given by his character “too afraid to kill a rabbit” and that’s why he handed the rabbit to his son to do it…
Bet you can’t spot the Biblical Glaring Irregularity in that now can you…?
OK, I’ll tell you.
Rabbits are Unclean.
Not Kosher.
If Bibi Nutcase-yahoo wants to judge according to the law, he’ll be judged by the same law.
A lot of the killing done by Israel in the time of the Judges and Kings is mentioned in the Bible mainly as a way of God telling how reeeealllllyyy bad they could mess shit up if left to their own judgments.
King David slept with one of his subjects’ wife and then had the guy killed to cover it up.
Solomon built temples to idols even on Zion.
And Bible scribes who worked for their direct descendants wrote the stories of just how badly they messed up while their bodies were still cooling.
Bibi and the others in Likud do grievously err, when they try to justify the murders and thefts they commit by using the Bible.
And since I believe they DO know the scriptures, they must be doing it deliberately and maliciously. That makes it Blasphemy.
There’s Biblical laws against that, you know.