COLO. SPRINGS– Poor Kyle. Not only is the newly suspected-arsonist in a hospital burn unit with third degree burns, but his until-recent colleagues are now laughing at his clumsiness and are belittling his motives. “What did his vandalism accomplish?” –his advice-givers ask, as if sensing a teaching-moment for their Youtube viewers. Well, if Kyle Lawrence INTENDED to burn down a civic justice building, as his cohort alleges, he accomplished THAT. You can’t take that away from him, you polemically-challenged pedants!
But my ire has more to do with why you attention-divas rushed out with public musings at all, drawing the media’s attention to Kyle’s participation with the early Occupy gathering in Acacia Park. Kyle Lawrence, age 22, passed through what became Occupy Colorado Springs like many a disaffected outcast. He carried no responsibility as founder, organizer or strategist, and as it turned out, bore most resemblance to the many itinerants with criminal records that abound in homeless populations. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but of course the local media are going to revel in associating lawbreakers with OCS. Why be the direct conduit?
Would the local media have made the Kyle Lawrence connection on its own? Maybe. But certainly not, I’ll allege, with the bells and whistles provided by people pretending to have the inside dirt on Occupy. You’ve insinuated that other occupiers harbor felonious intentions, pretending that you left OCS as a result. What self-aggrandizing poppycock! Can you be both insiders and outsiders? Begone then, you cretinous sound-backbiters!
Presuming you thought your were stepping up to some moral obligation, I’ll ask this: Do spokespeople for OCS need to make a public statement repudiating Kyle Lawrence’s arson? That’s certainly a local strain of the nonviolence pedagogical virus. In my opinion, absolutely not. The act Kyle committed was a crime — what’s that got to do with Occupy? OCS doesn’t condone crime. To address it implies that crime bears some relation to OCS actions. It doesn’t. Who is held to be in favor of rape, robbery or murder just because they don’t publicly repudiate it? That’s nonsense.
Repudiating anti-societal behavior is a trap, actually, to extract the menace from protest movements. Get a disgruntled populace to repudiate all forms of self defense and they’ll police themselves. To ineffectualness, ideally. Mass demonstrations aren’t met by riot police in order to prevent riots, the deployment of police is meant as a deterrent to the people’s will to assemble. Our freedom of assembly is guaranteed by right because our landlords will constantly scheme to ensure we not practice it. Demonstrations large enough, and giving off an air of sufficient stamina, are what it takes to effect government policy. Toothless crowds, not at all.
This differential is quite obviously seen in the abundant effort to keep occupiers from using tents. Daily protests don’t gather steam. Occupations threaten to give them momentum.
Oh, famously –I think mythically– toothless determination can combat segregation, but it’s never produced regime change or any reform having to do with money, especially at the top. What was desegregation but a privilege which one lower class was forced to relinquish to another? Unfortunately the MLK mythology has been used very successfully to inoculate modern activism. Popular protest has been getting nowhere ever since MLK. Coincidence?
So no repudiation of Kyle Lawrence, on principle. OCS is law abiding and like anyone, presumed innocent until proven guilty. OCS has never advocated violence or lawbreaking, end of story. From an effective activism standpoint, it’s important to remember the St Paul Principles, which advise activists not to criticize the tactics chosen by others. It’s obvious to see why nonviolence zealots condemn the St Paul Principles.
Should Kyle’s actions be addressed? Not as yet, they’re alleged, first of all, and second, it’s hearsay. But if we are to believe Kyle’s accomplice, and before accounting for drunkenness, apparently the act of burning the Green Mountain Falls city building was a deliberate act of protest, misguided whatever, yada yada, but it wasn’t teenage vandalism, burglary or insurance fraud.
If Kyle and his accomplice are found guilty, as the crime so far is understood, it was a politically motivated crime and they will be political prisoners. A menace to society, yes, candidates for incarceration and rehabilitation, lamentably yes, but moral degenerates? Hardly. Make fun of them if you want, but their crime was idealism.
An act of moronic vandalism by Kyle hardly suffices to make him a ‘political prisoner’. The fact that Occupy has attracted this type of street element in many of its locales hardly adds to any credibility Occupy still has with the general public, just as the fact that many Tea Bag types attracted to the Occupy Movement do not help Occupy out much neither. Plus, The Occupy Movement simply must be able to discuss out its tactics and political principles within its ranks, too. The following ‘St Paul’ idea is just a badly stated and mistaken set of opinion made by one grouping inside Occupy.
‘From an effective activism standpoint, it’s important to remember the St Paul Principles, which advise activists not to criticize the tactics chosen by others.’
Not true. We must be able to criticize and discuss within Occupy itself! These so-called ‘St Paul Principles’ try way too hard to maintain coalition with many people who have few decent political principles at all, and many of these folk might simply not belong in any movement for positive change, St Paul Principles or not.
Like the concepts that ‘leaderless’ is somehow good and great and that The Positive can some how fit inside 99% of society, the St Paul Principle stumbles badly as being smart organizational guideline. We should not leap at each others throats, but then again we must be free to discuss tactics, programs, and agendas within Occupy. It is a ‘principle’ that we be able to do so freely.
Good point Tony. I must add however that I omitted a critical detail about the St Paul Principle in question. The admonition was about criticizing other activist tactics IN PUBLIC. Sorry.
Of course activists should discuss alternative strategies with candid skepticism. Or if it’s a criminal act like arson, not entertain the suggestion AT ALL.
I disagree with you however about putting a moronic threshold on what qualifies as a political act. America’s prisons are filled with people who made many poor decisions, most of them out of economic desperation. Victims of whatever inequity, I believe they are political prisoners too.
and this proves it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3cJIRi_EXs&feature=youtu.be
“Should Kyle’s actions be addressed? Not as yet, they’re alleged, first of all, and second, it’s hearsay.”
“Do spokespeople for OCS need to make a public statement repudiating Kyle Lawrence’s arson? That’s certainly a local strain of the nonviolence pedagogical virus. In my opinion, absolutely not”
TALK ABOUT SCUM OF THE EARTH, AFTER WRITING THIS ARTICLE EARLIER TODAY ABOUT HOW PEOPLE SHOULD NOT SPEAKOUT AGAINST FELLOW PROTESTERS, ERIC VERLO RAN TO THE MEDIA TODAY AND DID THE EXACT OPPOSITE:
http://youtu.be/e3cJIRi_EXs
Raven, what is wrong with you? We’re dealing with real people here, and an incredibly valuable movement. Why are you being such a hater?!
OCS was approached Friday by KOAA 5/30 to respond to the report they were putting together on Kyle and OCS. By group decision we elected to make a statement. I hope it turned out okay.
OCS did not seek out this attention. And my own article here was prompted by the horrible bits of misinformation being circulated by our misguided Youtube-groupies.
You threw him under the bus! What a fucking rat you are
What is this “we”. What does “we” mean coming from the mouth of Eric? How did you decide to ‘repudiate’ Kyle publicly as an OCS decision? Vote night GA was AFTER you did what you did. Did you call up the 3 easily impressionable sheep left plus one slightly more mentally handicapped person plus one dog and attack daughter you’ve lately been exploiting to hold your signs for blog pictures ? Is that what you consider an OCS consensus nowadays? Eric you chased everyone away from the movement by dividing and conquering tactics and now you are attacking anything that stands in the way of your revisionist efforts to make you look like the backbone of occupy. Now you’ve kicked Kyle when he is down which is disgusting. You almost killed the PPJPC the same way. You are very likely a plant put in Colorado Springs to destroy every movement you can infiltrate. Notmytribe was started because PPJPC kicked you and your cronies you have left at occupy out and you’ve been hungry to take over a group ever since PPJPC threw you out after you were the Chairman and fucked things up with divide and conquer tactics. YOU HAVE A HISTORY OF GETTING PEOPLE HURT! THE SAINT PATTY’S DAY SEVEN INCIDENT NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF NOT FOR YOUR LEADING PEOPLE DOWN THE ROAD OF HATING 99% OF THE CITY YOU CHOOSE TO SPOIL! People need to see that you’ve been getting others to do your illegal work for you like Charles Manson for a very long time. I bet these blog posts will get censored too as you try to hide your tracks.
It always gets me when you, Raven, begin to try to pontificate about matters in the PPJPC of the past, simply because it illustrates what a raving nut you really have made yourself into. You personally know absolutely nothing about the antiwar movement of Colorado Springs and the past history of the PPJPC, simply because you have never been a participant of the group or anything in the over all much broader Antiwar Movement as a whole either. You weren’t there.
In fact, you are a Right Winger and not a Peace or Antiwar activist of any shade or stripe. In fact, you have not ever been an activist for any good cause at all, except maybe selling girl scout cookies or the like. At Occupy, you were about the most divisive and hate filled participant ever seen out there in Acacia Park, when you were once attending GAs instead of attacking Occupy as you do now, all Mr Clean style. (‘Mr Clean’ is another Right Wing stalker/harasser of the local Occupy, for those who don’t know him… He has made it his mission to interrupt Occupy CS because it is too ‘Left Wing’ for him)
Raven, you have now become a prime example of what happens when Tea Bagger folk infiltrate themselves into the local Occupy Movements, and then strut themselves around as if the Occupy is nothing more than another Right Winger effort to confuse the American public with. Occupy simply is not ever going to be a pro War-pro Ron Paul- pro Libertarianism Movement for you. Get over it, please. Occupy is an international upsurge of the Movement, and you are a localized Right Wing/ militarized abomination tag on leech to Occupy international, at best. Or more like just an angry clown.
In fact, you local CS faux patriot Right Wingers are so far away from the spirit of what Occupy internationally tries to accomplish, that it is simply ridiculous to think that you and your temporary local buddies, Raven, are somehow in any way at all representative of the ‘true’ Occupy. You simply are not.
You yourself are about as totally crazy as any small town version of Sarah Palin ever could be, Raven, if I had to make any comparison to what you have made yourself into.
As to Kyle? If he turned himself into an arsonist as charged by the police, then he made a personal mistake big time. Burning down buildings is simply not what Occupy ever should be doing. If Kyle is guilty of setting fire to a building, then I hope that later in life he can get himself together and live a better life than that? People do sometime make big mistakes in their lives and hopefully can be able to learn from them and rebuild their lives some. Good luck to you, Kyle.
pt1 as i do my research and investigate and educate myslef.very strange and telling.more questions and more questionalbe people.alot to soak in.
after checking the notmytribe site.
eric verlo i appreciate the honesty for what its worth.i think hearing amber hagen,jack walden semple,and patrick jay ian carmen side on this would help. how long has “hoss” admin?who are these people admin because they were right winger ron paul loving pot smonking admins?dates would help.i need facts not just heresay.you divulge many things but more needs to be purged.
pt 3 by your actions and deeds notmytribe in my opinion you fall in the same catogory as lone wolfe aka ryan king,raven martinez,micheal clifton aka agentofdoubt,jason warf,hosisen forouzandeh,kristie wheleer,people to be leery of.until proven other wise
im not democrat, im not republican.these parties have done enough damage.the people are tired of this bullcrap ,and see it for what it is ,but it only hurts those that participated/participate in it .. wouldnt you agree?the above mentioned have to many similarities to not to mention.um guys…(notmytribe)whats with the upside down star (pentagram)on tabs page?but dont take my word for it!thanks for the insight was far more difficult to get any answers from the above metioned..look i dont know who is or who isnt a paid agent or who is a pawn but there are diff a lot of suspect actions a statements from indiduals throughout this ocs.the people are about resistance against the opressors not this cloak n dagger cointel freemason secret societies madness…
“Pro-War Libertarianism”
That’s some funny shit.
Tony, you’re an idiot.
Mr. Knee, I believe Ron Paul is for a ‘strong national defense’ as he certainly would put it. Plus, nobody has ever accused him of wanting to do away with US nuclear weaponry, US weapons in space, and the gargantuan US military budget at all. But I guess to all you Wave the Flag Right Wing clowns he falls into some sort of antiwar bracket? To you nitwits, he must be Mr. Disarm the World for Peace, from down suburban Texas way….
have not figured out what i’m doing wrong could you guys put up the comment that looks like spam but isn’t with errors and all?why is the o.c.s community page down?left or right the human race wants truth love freedom honesty and to be free from lies manipulation and oppression.a red a-kilter pentagram huh.kind of like chaos out of order?or order out of chaos?
why are my comments not on these pages?
as i do my research and investigate and educate myself. very strange and telling. more questions and more questionable people. a lot to soak in. after checking the notmytribe site.
eric verlo i appreciate the honesty for what its worth. i think hearing amber hagen, jack walden semple, patrick jay, and ian carmen side on this would help. how long was “hoss” admin? who are these people admin because they were right winger ron paul loving pot smoking admins? dates would help. i need facts not just hearsay. you divulge many things but more needs to be purged. tony logan, eric verlo you seem to be engaging in the same tactics these “right wing nut jobs” do. negative attacks are a divisive tactic and doesn’t help the people as a whole. just parties and organizations. you are close minded and have no patience for others opinion ive seen this first hand. it looks like this is a left right battle..! right/left battle is another tactic!
by your actions and deeds notmytribe in my opinion you fall in the same category as lone wolfe aka ryan king, raven martinez, michael clifton aka agentofdoubt, jason warf, hossien forouzandeh, kristie wheeler, people to be leery of. until proven otherwise
im not democrat, im not republican. these parties have done enough damage. the people are tired of this bullcrap, and see it for what it is, but it only hurts those that participated/participate in it .. wouldnt you agree? the above mentioned have to many similarities to not to mention. um guys… (notmytribe) whats with the upside down star (pentagram) on tabs page? but dont take my word for it! thanks for the insight was far more difficult to get any answers from the above mentioned.. look i dont know who is or who isnt a paid agent or who is a pawn but there are diff a lot of suspect actions a statements from individuals throughout this ocs. the people are about resistance against the oppressors not this cloak n dagger cointel freemason secret societies madness… who is censoring me and preventing me on ocs group page?
o.c.s/the people should put any decision making to a HALT.until all this is sorted out and more of the community can make sense of this.who ever is censoring me and the occupy Colorado springs pages if this is not fixed and restored the cloud of suspicion will grow.if this is not discussed in any of the g.a meetings the cloud of suspicion will grow.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/infiltration_to_disrupt_divide_and_misdirect_20120224/
HAhA BEN. Are you suggesting that Occupy CEASE its actions because detractors bombard it with personal attacks? All that’s ever been censored are crude slander with the stated intention of getting someone fired.
As for you, you’re CREATING the “cloud of suspicion” by carrying on about censorship. In your case, you’re spamming this site with the SAME COMMENT. Spam filters automatically filter that. So WRITE SOMETHING NEW. Punctuate like someone who’s attended school, and let’s hear what you have to say!
By the way, THIS isn’t OCS, it’s NotMyTribe. And from my experience with Occupy, it doesn’t make its decisions based solely on internet input, much less anonymous input. Attend the meetings, decide what actions you’d like it to pursue, that’s how Occupy works. It’s entirely based on consensus on the ground, from ideas generated at the meetings. No one’s in charge, much less we at NMT. Cheers!